ordered nedw and necw needle today..

any recommendations on where to start?
2007 ec300, race fuel.
i'm currently running n1eg, #2, 42 pilot, 175 main. 70+ degrees and it's coloring plug nicely, just barely on the lean side of things - if the temp dropped a few degrees i'd 100% go richer on the main and probably on the pilot too..... i get a very minor hanging idle sometimes. but it settles down to an incredibly low idle, and will idle there for 10 seconds maybe before it dies. long enough for me.

but bike pulls hard instantly, with no burble. there's no big hit, but throttle is quite touchy - the transition to warp speed is maybe too fast :)

The 42 Pilot should maybe cut the mustard. The W is a few steps leaner than the G diameter needle you are running, so you might have to bump it up one. I'd think you might be turned in a fair bit on the idle screw to get the idle you speak of with the G diameter, which would also cause a hanging idle sometimes. I'd keep the 175 main for a start as both NEDx and N1Ex/NOZx are quite rich on their 3rd tapers. As for clip position I'd start in the middle and go by feel. It'll put you in the ball park, and from there you can adjust as you feel necessary.

From seat of the pants/Bum Dyno. I'd compare N1EG#2 in my bike to NEDW#3. The bike burbles and carries on but pulls like a freight train once it gets a move on. No good for what I do, but should give you an example for cross reference. Let us know how you get on!

X2

It's starting to get a little colder over here, so I would start out with the W @#3, the 42 pilot and the 175 main, AS at 1.5 . I agree with whats been stated above and this should get you pretty close. You may have to fine tune with the AS though.

hey Jakobi,

just got back from a ride at lithgow 3000' 15 deg c and decided to add some caltex octane booster to caltex 98 (at the sixty litre per bottle rate), go back to a 42 JD blue clip 4 from top, 175 and finally got a reading, it was at the end of ride and bike rode perfect all day, 93 km about 600ml left in tank.

this was a 3/4 wot reading after 7km of flat out fire trail.

I think the s3 head is very fuel fussy

Was this after running the NEDW? How did they compare back to back at elevation?

Does your bike colour your plug evenly? Mine is always reads right on one side and lean on the other, or rich on one and right on the other so I mostly go by feel and power delivery. 15c sounds nice.. Was 35 here today and humid too!

Nah, just the JD needle, the guys I was with were quite serious and didnt want to stop bar a munch session, so didn't have the time to swap the needle back. the plug coloured right round and down and was a new today br8es, just a slight greying to the brown on the exhuast side. had no chung chung chung, perfect steady low idle even after some long single, i really think it was the fuel, it was the only change. i'll try the nedw next time from the start.

out of interest, do you have any idea how the JD blue needle compares to the NEDW and is there a richer version?

I've not used either of the JD needles so I can't really give you a comparison as to how I felt they ran.

From all accounts of what I've read the NEDW is a step leaner on the straight diameter than the JD Red. Both a triple taper needles, and both quite smooth in delivery. JD generally requires a few sizes larger on the main as its 3rd taper is lean. NEDx has a rich 3rd taper and requires a leaner main jet.

You have run the NEDW before on clip 3 haven't you? I'm getting confused and assuming you're the same Simmo737 from dbw :)

If you wanted to richen up the bottom end of the NEDx you could always try a NEDG or NEDF. Seems with my bike at my temps and elevation I'm always looking for something a bit leaner.

Can't wait to get my NECW in and reap the rewards of perfect crispy delighfulness!

so i raced on the n1eg yesterday. i got 48 miles, 2:20ish race time, did not refuel (couldn't find my pit - DOH!) . i turned the reserve on at 39 miles, but probably didn't need to. at the end there was enough fuel in the tank to just cover the standpipe of the petcock.... this is the best fuel consumption i've ever had, and the bike runs great. are the nedw/necw as fuel miserly? i've got no issues with the n1eg - is it worth it to switch? what is the advantage???

I've been getting about 10km/litre out of the nedw#2. 60kms takes about 6L to fill it up. N1EF#1 my bike hit reserve at 80km after putting in an extra litre. The N1 range is just too rich at my temp and elevation and particular bike.

It really depends how keen you are. You might save a little fuel, you might not. You might like the power delivery or not. I didn't mind the delivery of the N1.. I just couldn't get lean enough and would load up, smoke and spooge along with poor consumption.

If you have a spare half a day and can be bothered to do some tinkering then I'd been interested in hearing how you go. If not then completely understandable. If its not broke don't fix it.. then again nothing ventured nothing gained :)

i'm a tinkerer - but after my findings - it's almost not worth the risk - the power delivery is good, as long as i stay out of first gear, climbs hills with ease - did not stall even when i was a gear high on the bigger hills, chugs along great in the higher gears, and fuel consumption allows me to run a 2 hour race with no refuel. idles well enough, and never stalled... this is my second race on the n1eg - the first was a mud fest, and i had no fuel issues (1:48 race time) - approx 30 miles... . bike never loaded up - and didn't smoke excessively (although it smoked more than dd/cc needles have for me). this weekend's race was a wide open gncc 'fast' track, so i was at 1/2 throttle or above all the time. there were points where i was looking for 7th gear :)

No risk in changing jets around, as long as you know your last working settings. Know that feeling you speak of looking for another gear :D

Heading out this weekend for some more tinkering. Bikes been prepped with the 40P AS 2 out. N3CW#2. 170 Main. Hope its on the money.

got my jakobi needle in yesterday... no time to test this weekend ..

Going to drop the pilot 1 size as i had to come out to 2.5 turns and could have gone a bit more to clean up the bottom end. Mid range is crisp but signs off up top a bit. Going back to the 172 main. Slight hanging idle if thrashing around on the main for too long.

Update: Dropping the pilot didn't help clean up the burble on the bottom end. Just resulted in hard starting and caused hanging idle to get worse. Even with the 172 main. After a few sessions up and down the street the only way to clean up the low - mid range was to lift the clip again. Ended up with nice crisp response right off idle. Less vibration in general and a bike thats happy to sing sing sing on the pipe. Smooth and controllable off, and will idle on the stand for as long as I want. 40P AS1.75 NEDW#1 172. I still have no idea why my bike in particular requires such a lean needle to run crisp. Will be doing 180kms of wet sloppy forrest, red clay fire trails, and some nice rocky mountain climbs tomorrow. Should be a good test.

with the weather getting cooler here, my NOZH 42 pilot combo idles very well on clip 1. I got the air screw to sit at the preferred 1.5 turns out pretty much all the time.

I am still at a 160 main. I went to a 165 and the bike had a hard time revving out. 160 just rips your arms out.

I did try the N3EH I had and it idles about the same, but I use much more fuel with it. It runs a little smoother than the NOZH. 170 main if I use the N3 needle.


What I do notice with any needle is that if you putt-putt around off the pipe for a while, the bike won't idle right with any needle in it. If you ride it a little harder, and are just coming off of being "on the pipe" the bike idles perfectly. Not a hanging idle, but just right. If I stop and it is idling low, I just bump the throttle a little and it idles higher.

had a few minutes.. put it in.. feels great so far..
real good crisp low end.. will carry front wheel easily thru 3 gears..
nedw.. ctr clip for now.. 40 p 170 m as 1.5

Glad to hear its running well. Would love to see/hear some video. Any burble at part throttle?

Just to summarize could you put down previous jetting specs, along with elevation, temp, humidity etc. Just helps for others to have an area for comparison.

it burbled once about 1/3 throttle, but i think it was not fully warmed up..
once warm it ran great..
i am in amarillo TX 79109.. we are 3500', but our air here is horrible.. we sometimes have a corrected altitude over 5000.. it was about 80 today and maybe 20% humidity.. we are in a huge drought.. previous jetting is not much help as this bike came from the houston area, but it was 182 main, 42 pilot, cek clip 2..normally, on my other gg.. 40 to 42 pilot, both bikes have 170 mains..
will give it a good ride hopefully next weekend.. hopeful get some video time.. thanks jakobi..

Tried moving the clip from #2 to #3 and rode about 30 miles. Result was too much blubering. Switched back to #2 position and 50 miles of very nice jetting.

'05 DE300, 38mm PWK, #7 slide 170M/38P/NEDW#2,2 1/2 out.

4000' elevation, 60 degrees.

Other than handing over the carb to RB, this is pretty darn good setup

I'm going to give this a try next time out just for giggles cause I can't help myself :) I was pretty happy with the 40 NEDW#2 172, bit burbly in the lower openings. At clip 1 its very nice off the bottom end and lugs like a tractor but feels a bit weak/flat right before it comes onto the pipe, then it rips.

Dropping the main 1 and the pilot 1 might clean up the top and bottom while still giving it a beefy mid range. Tinker tinker tinker.

Good to see others are having good results with the needle. Good call MJC

It seems as though the 300's like to run a little leaner in the middle than the 250's, hence the #2 position on the NEDW needle for the 300's. Which makes sense.Where as the guys with the 200's will more than likely want to go even richer in the middle than the 250's. It may even push them into an NECH needle.

don
 

Jako:

If you are in #2 with a W needle you should try (maybe you have and I missed it) a J needle in #3. You mentioned lower openings; index your throttle and see where it really is, my guess is it's in the 1/8th area. Assuming your reeds are good that area is influenced by the cut of the slide and needle diameter. Hard starting is a too lean pilot/air screw setting (using the choke to start a warm engine).

Just a thought.

Hey Don. You haven't missed it. I haven't ordered the NEDJ yet but based on my findings so far if I did I would still be running it in clip 2. The needle while in clip 3 is far too rich right across the board.

Tomorrow I plan to test out the 38 NEDW2 170. Listening back over my video of different setups the NEDW2 definately sounds the strongest. If I can't have a win with this then I'll be ordering a J and pairing it with a 40P again.

To be honest I'm an obsessive compulsive tinkerer. Can't get enough of it. Just hope it can help a few others out along the way.

You have the sickness

Who's Don?

I thought you were.. It was at the top of your reply. Hahah!!
I definately have the bike sickness.. Sick in the head.. I think sometimes all this messing with it is just another excuse to start it up and take it for a ride..

More testing done.. Still not 100% happy.. Ended up going to 40 N3EJ (yamaha needle) 175 just for comparison. The n3 definately has more of a mid range snap to it. The J taper also allows me to clean up the bottom end a bit more without burbling or having to lift the clip. I've just ordered 2 more needles NEDJ and NECJ and hope to have one of them hit the spot. Probably NEDJ#2. I have spare needles if anyone needs some to test :D

nedw in 2011 250 6days

so I've played around with this needle a bit.
Sunday I was running a 45 pilot, 175 main, #2 slot
elevation 700ft above sea level temp 50f

in the 2 slot the bike seemed a bit lean eveywhere. enough to make me think this ain't right and to go back to the truck. I raised the needle to the #3 slot. much better it seemed a bit rich off the bottom and a bit lean in the mid and top but the bike ran alot better than in the 2 slot. If I knew the temps were going to stay in the 50's I would try the 42. However the cold is moving in and I need to think about starting the day in the mid to high 30's and having the temps go up to 60 or just stay in the 30's 40's or 50's all day.

Whats the coldest temp you'd run a 42 in??

the 45 was too lean in the 2 slot but a little rich in the 3 slot
would a 42 in the 3 slot be more/less lean than a 45 in the 2 slot??
sounds like I'm getting down to splitting hairs

my plan is to leave the 45 in for the cold, 3 slot and maybe bump up to a 178 for peace of mind and deal with the rich condition

42/175 with the needle in the 4 slot be the same??

both the n1ef and nedw seem to make the bike a bit lean in the mid and top
that said I like the nedw much better

Very strange that you find yourself falling lean on top with both the n13 and nED range as they both have a rich 3rd taper that would usually require a smaller main. The n3 range has a lean mid/top end.

I have found the needle straight diameter to have a pretty big influence over the burble just off idle. If I leaned out the pilot enough to clean up the off idle stutter I'd get a racing idle and some hard starting.

NEDJ the next leanest on the straight diameter, or NECx needles are available as half clips.

Skid, I'm riding in the same exact conditions as you are. I probably live less than 100 miles from you. I've been running my bike, 11' 250, with a 42 pilot still, the needle is still in the #3 slot, but I've gone up to a 175 main, and set the AS @1.5 out. Your not going to hurt the bike,seize it, on the pilot. The only thing I plan on doing is raising the needle to the 4th clip when the temps get into the lower 40's. As far as the bike feeling lean or going flat on the topend, I think that's just how these bikes run. It's the only thing I'm not really impressed with. I have a tendency to ride the bike like a 125 when I put the 50 tooth sprocket on it, and if there was something that was going to happen to the engine while I was on the main jet it would have, but I couldn't even get the bike to boil a drop of water out of it. IMO the jetting with the NEDW neddle is very flexable. I've had no problems using that needle from temp in the 40's-90's with only minor changes.

That's mostly a function of your Gnarly and its short sweet spot. The old DOMA pipe was better rounded IMHO.

Not sure I really agree. Well I do. The Gnarly is known to sacrifice some top end. I'm running the stock pipe though and don't find the top end to have too much over rev.

Don't get me wrong it'll rip along up top but it does seem to sign off a bit or more so if happier to click the next gear. This is on a 300 compared to the 250's though. I'd imagine they'd have a bit more over rev than the 300.

I also agree with MJC. I have ran mine with a 40P and NEDW#1 172 and while it did begin to feel a bit too lean when being worked hard it never spat any coolant or pinging.

You just think your Gnarlized 300 is fast up top, the Doma was good for about 5 more HP. Think old time CR500 fast, well not quite, but the first ride with the Doma was real eye opener. You get used to shifting at a certain RPM range and the Doma just blew right thru where I used to shift carrying the front wheel. Did lose the clean grunt off the bottom though.

other than the 42 we are pretty much running the same set up ... got a 50 on the back too. When I was messing with it sunday my bud said ... that don't sound right ... it sounds like a 125. I sort of agreed and always figured when a 250 2t sounds like a 125 your on the lean side. But it felt pretty good so I went with it. you north south east or west of me?? I'm tempted to pop the 42 in but it seems late in the season for that. might ride the enduro this sunday ... gonna be a cold start to that one

I'm about 5 miles west of Dirt World Cycle. For the temps that we had today, 30's, I would have used a 45, but honestly I'm just about done for the season. I may do a trail rider or two and one more race at the end of Nov, but I'm not really a cold weather rider.

There is a definite change in exhaust note from one clip to the next and with each one leaner it is more of a higher pitched and snappy sound. Richen it up and it will sound duller. The thing to note here is that it felt good. Leaner will continue to feel better and better until you reach a point where it feels like it lacks it balls. Like it'll rev but it won't have strength behind it. Go leaner again and you'll start to experience surging, pinging, and boiling over. Keep pushing it and you'll more than likely seize it up.

From my experience the edge of being too lean is when the bike feels really nice when you take off but after 10minutes of giving it the berries it starts to feel a bit flat. Go half a clip or a clip richer and you're on the moneys! If you want it to be more torquey and tractor like (a little more forgiving) go another clip richer, but this will come at the expense of using a bit more fuel.

They engine is extremely tunable depending on what characteristics you are looking for.

I have found the holy grail for my bike after a whole year of continually trying every needle and setup I can get my hands on.

Settled on 40P AS2 NEDJ#2 172. Its err very nice! I had tried NECJ#3 which was too rich. Blubbed some but generally just not crisp enough. You could hear it in the tone of the exhaust.

With NEDJ#2 quite clean and lean off the bottom end. Will lug around in 2nd very smoothly and pop the front up over logs and roots with ease. It then richens up into a nice meaty mid range and keeps pulling all the way into the top.

Great. Now I gotta get another needle!

Great work Jakobi

You don't really need another needle. If you're happy with the NEDW I'd just stick with that. I had a burble just as I'd open the throttle with the W. I'd say between 1/8 and 1/4 throttle which I could clear up by lifting the needle but then I fell a bit lean in the mid (around 1/2 throttle). I could live with it if I only rode open 3rd gear and up trails but found it a bit annoying at the smaller openings in the tight stuff. The J diameter has cleaned this up for me.

Like MJC said in the jetting thread. NEDH for 200's, NEDW for 250, NEDJ for 300.

I could probably get away with dropping the main back to a 170 again but will leave it as is for the moment. Very pleased!

Hey Jake,
Just buy a normal 12 and work all this out again for me will ya.:D
My 07 is now officially up for sale.
I have cancelled my Wildwood entry to get the bike ready for sale.
Cheers Mark

Mark! I think the new 300 still uses the 38mm carb same same same so jetting shouldn't be too far off. I'm thinking maybe you should have a go with the 2012 first and once you have it sussed I'll consider selling the Euro :D

Yeh , I bet you do.:D
Your wish will probably come true mate as I will be buying shortly.
I know that if there were any probs John from Solo will help us out.
The only worry I have still is really that new filter design?
I guess we'll see...
I will probably be talking to you a lot more when I start jetting the new one as I have deliberately run the 07 on the slightly rich side to be safe on long transport sections.
Cheers Mark