Quieter Silencer 2
 

Who would be interested in a quieter silencer for their 2 stroke Gas Gas?

I am all about quiet and have been for the over 30 years I've been riding. I hate loud bikes of any kind as well as cars, truck, etc. and as I get older it seems to bug me more.

Since the beginning of my riding days there has been a sound problem that continues to this day and I firmly believe it's still our biggest problem so hense this poll. I personally would like a quietier option than the standard Turbine Core II silencer for my GG.

I have talked to Dale Malasek, the Gas Gas importer (as well as FMF and Go Fasters) about the possibility of getting FMF to build the new Stealth Q Silencer for the Gas Gas 2 strokes. I thought he could use his leverage to get them to do it even though we are puny in #'s compared to KTM. He said he would be glad to talk to FMF but also wanted to guage the interest from the GG community so I said I would take a poll to see how many people would be interested.

This is for current and possible future owners if you want to vote.

Here is a link to the FMF Q Stealth if you want to have a look. http://www.fmfracing.com/default_det...ocross&cat=500 It would be be a bit bigger and longer than the current Turbine Core II silencer just so you know (small price to pay IMO).

my bike never blow more than 92-94,but I would always vote for a quieter silencer,even if it meant a slight power rob,aho uses the bike to its fullest anyway,let the pros wring the snot out of them,ever hear a stock XR400 or 250? stealth isnt even the word

I bought an FMF "Q" for my daughter's KTM 200. It really wasn't much quieter than the newly packed TC 2 on my ec 300. I was a bit disappointed in that.

I am all for more quite. a silencer at $149 is a cheap insurance policy to keep riding areas open. I hope the Q stealth is quieter than the Q.

blitz

Truly IMO the Powercore 2 muffler is not too offensive. Mine is consistently 94DB. I have had several comment that they didn't hear me coming up on them when racing scrambles. Compared to the majority of modern 4 strokes these bikes are already stealth. Much of the sound emitted is actually escaping through the expansion chamber and engine area. I guy I know put a db snorkel on a turbine core 2 and it did not really do much in the way of noise reduction.

All that being said, quieter is better and I am all for it!
I do however think what these bikes come equipped with exceed federal regs and are on the low side of, or right there with the competition when it comes to sound. And to keep the already slightly porky gassers weight down and stay competitive in the weight wars, adding more will not help them sell.
Something quieter should be an option! But what it comes with stock already is more than adequate for the multipurpose use these machines get IMO.

The last 4 stroke 450 Gasser I heard, an 05, was pretty darned loud. The newer stock 4 stroke Gas Gas muffler may be quieter, I'm not sure. If it isn't I'd suggest they look into helping find a solution.

Roscoe

The sad thing is that my stock silencer on my old GG 200 blew 88db at an ISDE quialifier. What's sad about that you ask? It had no spark arrestor so I couldn't run it, but I was curious. The FMF I put on blew the requisit 94db. I later bought a sparky and bolted it to the end of the stocker.

To me, a loud bike wears a person out. I'm all for quiet.

The 08 ktm 2t bikes are very quiet stock!!
I always thought my 06 300 w/pc II was a bit loud but it blows around 92 to 94 at sound tests and when I'm under way I'm usually not on the pipe so it is even quieter. I think if you put a stock euro gasser pipe on a US gasser you'd find it to be very quiet, especially underway.

Too quiet can be a problem in multi use areas. You want horse riders and mtb'ers to be able to hear us coming. A horses defense mechanism is flight. If you come around the corner on your whisper quiet bike and surprise a hores the poor bugger on its back better know what they are doing cuase they are going for a ride!! A little noise it good for the wild life too. In the wild silence is the sound of death. If deer get used to hearing dirtbikes and they know that those noisey critters don't try and kill them then they aren't going to be stressed out by them.

I have a DRZ400 with a Muzzy Ti pipe and muffler sys. It is almost identical to my FSE450 with the FMF muffler. Surprisingly, the Muzzy has much larger pipes, probably puts out much more air than the GG sys and is much quieter to boot.

I'm working on trying to fit the Muzzy to the GG. I expect it will make my GG run better and also make it more quiet.

Yes, I'd like something quieter than the FMF but I'd also like not to loose any HP in the process.

Tony

I have both the OEM GG silencer and an FMF TC2. I think the GG silencer is a bit quieter than the FMF, probably because there is more core/packing area (no SA). Like Roscoe said, they are adequate for the intended use, BUT, they get to sounding nasty if not maintained. I don't think 2-strokes are the big problem. I live in a valley between two mountains full of trails and old roads. You can hear everything, guns, bikes, dogs barking, saws, you name it. A 2-stroke with a decent silencer in the woods is not a particular high energy sound, and is muffled by the trees fairly well. All the leaf blowers running in yards are far more noticable. Now, enter the kid (one of many) on his new 250F with open MX pipe. You can hear him for miles, count his shifts, even get an idea how his bike is running. That sound is what is pissing people off, it has much more energy.

Skid, your right about the deer. Up here they are used to bikes and I can get very close with a still running bike before they spook.

As far as the road, I like to be heard but not at a ridiculous level, like your typical HD with open pipes that runs like crap from no backpressure. I run a Leo Vince system on my Duc but retain the inserts. I happen to love the Ducati sound and while not excessively loud, its loud enough to render soccer mom's cell phone useless withen a few car lengths. I think the phone display may shatter if I remove the inserts.:D

I also ride MTB's and have noticed from that end of the spectrum, that a stock KDX is about the quitest thing in the world. They're still noisy enough to give fair warning. It's most fun to pass a motorcycle rider going down a hill on the mountain bike.
Anyway, this motivated me to try something. I got a used stock silencer from a KDX, then modified it to fit my Gas Gas ( it did't take much, just hack off the lower mount on the silencer, and the bike). I was less than impressed, the stock euro silencer was waaay lighter, and was quieter to boot, besides being an abomination of a thing to do to such a great bike, it was a bad idea. That double walled KDX silencer must make a big difference in sound.

I have the FMF TC2 on my '01 XC300 and a FMF Q from a ’99-02 KX250 on my '06 EC300.

Fitting the FMF Q silencer on my ’06 EC300 required some minor mods. The Q silencer is about as long as the stock GasGas Euro silencer and a few inches longer than the GasGas FMF TC2 silencer. As a note, the KX FMF Q would not fit on my ’01 XC300 as it had too much interference with the rear fender.

From my perspective I can’t hear a meaningful difference in noise level between the FMF TC2 and FMF Q with the rest of the engine noise, especially the noise of the pressure pulses reverberating in the expansion chamber.

I would be curious to hear from anyone who used the DB snorkel to go stealth.

Eric,

The silencer I'm refering to is the new Q Stealth (not sure you realize this) which is supposed to be quieter than the regular Q silencer which I'm looking to bypass completely.

IMO every little bit helps and a little cut in db can go a long way to the regular ear. From users on KTM Talk who have this new silencer, up close it doesn't seem to be so much different than the regualr Q but I guess as you get further from the bike it becomes more noticeable. Really removes the bark.


Thanks to everyone for their feedback so far...keep em coming please!! I would say from the looks so far it's a wanted/needed item....at least as an option.

Skidad

Skidad,

I realized you were referring to the new Q stealth.

My subjective observation from the motorcyle seat is that there is little sound difference between the TC2 and Q. It seems that we are at point of diminishing returns on the silencer. I agree that every bit counts. A DB snorkel would give you an idea of how far you could go with more silencer.

Perhaps there is a way to put a lightweight insulating coating inside the expansion chamber to reduce the sound - like the double walled KDX pipe. That may yield a better noise reduction than a larger silencer.

how about some kind of pipe wrap to kill the pulse noise in the expansion chamber. Bet that would quiet things down quite a bit.

brianVT had a DBsnorkel for a while on his bike,maybe he can chime in,still dont think it would stay on my bike at race speeds though,too much bouncing around

Thats a big reason the KDX is so quiet. The thing also weighs a ton. I wonder if the spray on bedliner stuff would work on the cones (cooler part) of the pipe as a db killer? If not, I'm sure there is some type of higher temp acoustic coating somewhere that would work.

I'll be able to tell you soon on the db snorkel, as I have one on the way.

I ordered a db snorkle to check out but returned it (the guy took it back NO questions asked and even refunded the shipping). The opening to mount it to the silencer was huge and it would have been really mickey mouse adapting it to fit. The concept is great and it works and I would have no issues hanging that thing off the back if it was a bit smaller and better fitting. The really important part of the Snorkle is the first section/end cap area. I have seen people use it with just that piece (no long tube underneath) and it's still very effective. You can modify the extra tubing to have as much or as little as you want but the important part lies in the end cap and first bend. I asked about a smaller one being made but he said the tooling costs were huge to do this one so that isn't going to happen any time soon.

If you need some proof of the effectiveness of this Q Stealth here are 3 pages of threads from KTM Talk on how good it works (especially compared to the Turbine Core 2). http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=311250. We need this silencer and I'm urging everyone here to contact FMF http://www.fmfracing.com/contact/contact.aspx and request them to build it for the Gassers.

I had a dbSnorkel on my '01 XC300 and consistenly blew 88 - 90 dbA during sound testing. Without the dbSnorkel, the stock FMF TC2 blew 93 - 95 dbA with fresh packing.

I didn't have any problems keeping the dbSnorkel on my bike as the attachment was quite sturdy and well engineered. However the whole silencer fell off at the '06 NETRA Rocky Mountain Enduro. The front mounting hole was worn through, long before I ever installed the snorkel, and the rear bolt finally sheared off. Went from being one of the quietest bikes to the loudest. Never did get the silencer or the snorkel back. My ears rang for three days afterwards too. The only other issue I had was the end of the snorkel pushed up against the rear fender.

Not only did the snorkel reduce exhaust noise, but it had a psychological effect on me as well. Not being able to "hear" the exhaust I tended to ride a little more aggresively and hold the throttle open longer. I'm thinking about getting another dbSnorkel for my '03 EC300 since, lately, I've been riding behind my son on a little Honda 50 and that bike is whisper quiet.

One of the guys over on the orange site put a db Snorkle on the Q stealth silencer and blew something like 83-84db in a sound test. Now that's quiet.

Pre-'98 2-stroke KTM's with the factory "hockey-stick" S/A silencers always tested in the mid to upper 80's. My '98 EC250 Gasser with the stock Messico silencer never tested above 88 dbA until I hacked off 6-inches to install an Answer S/A. It never tested below 92dbA after that.

Funny you should mention that. My other bike is a 97 KTM 250 EXC with the hockey stick silencer. KTM used that through 2005 and it's a great S/A silencer although heavy. It actually fits the newer KTM's as well. Might have to adapt one to the Gasser if FMF wont build the Q Stealth. I also have the Euro GG hockey stick style silencer to play with that I bought from Speedmaniac in Canada.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...e/IMG_3482.jpg

Hockey stick silencer on a new 2009 KTM

http://65.57.254.60/ktmtalk/photogal...embers/9-1.jpg

What I did not like about the KTM "hockey stick" silencer/SA on my 300EXC was that it collected spooge in the SA and dripped onto the rear caliper/rotor. Not a jetting issue as the bike ran clean. When running modern synthetic (high flash point) oils a lot goes through the motor/exhaust unburned and some will collect in the SA, my '07 does the same thing.

I'm satisfied with the TC2 or OEM GG silencer. Its quiet enough for overall use and a lot quieter than most of the 4-strokes out there. If things change and I'm the loud guy then of course I'll deal with it.

Perhaps its not a big deal to me because I run the Hyde combo. Plastic, not aluminum, and it covers a lot of the pipe as well.

[QUOTE=GMP;23510]What I did not like about the KTM "hockey stick" silencer/SA on my 300EXC was that it collected spooge in the SA and dripped onto the rear caliper/rotor. QUOTE]

I have a welded on drip edge to stop that from happening. I also remove the S/A every so often and torch the crap out of it until it look new. No biggie.

Didn't those silencers have a spooge drain on the bottom?

Yup, but it doesn't seem to do much. I prefer to just take everthing apart and torch it clean then repack the the Moose/Race Tools premade inserts although I read these were getting discontinued. Hope not, good item.

What happens is the oil that normally blows out in a gradual mist collects in the back of the "bullet" of the SA, and then drips out. The packing and the outside of the bullet is usually fine. A regular silencer with the same jetting would run perfectly clean with no spooge drip. I think this is common with a Krizman type SA. This same thing happens with the TC2 on my '07 250, but to a much lesser extent, probably because its a lot shorter than the KTM silencer/SA.

Has anyone been hassled for their spark arrestor with the db snorkel? It covers the usfs lettering on my spark arrestor, so I'd have to remove it to prove it.

I added the db snorkel to my FMF turbine core 2. It makes almost no difference in sound at an idle, but while riding it's super quiet. Others riding with me notice how quiet it is. However, now I notice how much mechanical noise my engine makes. It sort of drives me nuts. I'm going to do a top end to see if that's loose, and I'm thinking of doing crank bearings just because. My bike has 200 miles on it, so that may be a little premature, but I'm just thinking.

I've been running the Stealth lately, and honestly, I can't tell a big difference from my well maintained TC2, at least when riding the bike. It also spooges a lot more as it seems to trap more oil blown out with the exhaust, as I expected it would. I'm on the fence if I want to keep it or not, as I never had a problem with noise at any event. I got it for quieter local riding, but not sure if it makes much difference.

200 miles? You mean 2000 right? Even so, the lower end should be fine, Especially considering Jeff and Les cared for that bike. I'd just do a top end, and clean the PV. I've seen a 300 go over 6K miles.

i have read somewhere that it is possible that you can wrap some old inner tube around the expansion chamber, wich i did, but i can't really tell how much difference there is.i never got it tested for DB.
it's not very quit, but not loud either.
and i'm not saying it looks good,but it might work somewhat :rolleyes:
it doesn't bother me personally but would like it even more quit since the trails i'm doing are not really legal and don't want too many people to be bothered by me passing by.
i have to go that way since there are no real legal trails available around here :(
i do believe that the most noise comes from the expansion chamber since it's such a thin plate that it's been made of.

ciao ,hannes.

I think the Hyde helps with the pipe noise. I let a guy try my bike a couple weeks ago, and I couldn't hear it at all after he was down the trail for 30 s. I have the stock GG OEM silencer, which is reasonably quiet. Two stroke sound is lost in the woods a lot faster than a four stroke. I just stay off the gas if I'm in a sensitive area in sight of houses, its quieter than you think.

I used to drive a drag race car. Some tracks required mufflers to appease local home owners. The 1st time guys could hear the mechanical noises made by their engines and chassis it usually scared the crap out of them. Race engines have bigger clearances and therefore rattle like a worn out cotton gin.

I had a KX250 that I experimented on as you describe. I had an Answer sneaker silencer on it which was a quiet silencer. I had heard of people wrapping the fat part of the pipe with inner tube and although they reported an improvement in sound output they said they had a persistent rubber smell that was annoying. I wrapped the pipe first with that fiberglass heat wrap that drag racers use. Then I wrapped it with inner tube. I didn't notice any smell and the bike was REALLY quiet. Quietest bike I ever had. The only problem was that it caused the pipe to rust really badly underneath all that wrapping.

You make the call, how bad do you want it to be that quiet?