Cramping
 

Thought I'd start a new thread spun off of the race prep for the rider.

My demon: Cramps. Seemingly after 4-5 hours depending on exertion level. I use Nuun sports drink, it's much healthier than Gatorade, and has better mineral mix without all the sugar. I use Cliff Shot gel packs, once per hour if possible, or at checkpoints. I'm adding in the canned oxygen because it seems to work, and it provides mental clarity if nothing else.

Stainlesscycle mentioned a product called out Salt Stick. I looked at the website. Looks like I need to get that dispenser if nothing else. I'm not above buying their tab either, though it doesn't seem any different than the Enduralytes by Hammer. I'm willing to try anything.

My issue is not any specific muscle either. It's not usually the major muscles. I work those frequently at the gym anyway, and ride my bicycle 18miles round trip to work every day. The cramps will come in the bottom of my foot, a finger, the top of my forearm occasionally.

Have you ever tried magnesium tablets?
They have a high does of the magnesium that your sports drink probably has, but much more concentrated, I take them at pit stops, taste like chalk but go down easily with some drink. Haven't had cramp since I started using them, neither has a mate who used to get cramp chronically after a few hours of riding.

Magnesium tablets sound like a good idea. I'll check them out. (along with pickle juice, more salt tablets, and breathing)

Yeh , sorry that is what I take Mag phos tablets , not salt tablets.
Magnesium phosphate.
They do taste like chalk don't they?
Cheers Mark

Well, what I imagine chalk would taste like :rolleyes:

someone else mentioned it. i've never used salt stick...

cramping hasn't been an issue for me, but then again i'm only running 2 hr events...

Cramping is a big issue for me last yr I started taking potassium and Mag. Worked well for me.Also drinking lots of fulids .

Here is a great article on muscle cramping. Not sure it will apply to your case but it's good. Get flexable!!!

http://www.mxconditioning.com/2009/05/muscle-cramping/

It was me who recommended the Salt Stick Caps. I have used the Hammer Endurolytes and for me anyway the Salt Stick Caps work better. I only use Hammer Heed energy drink in my Camelbak because it works and causes no stomach issues for me. If you sweat allot water alone wont cut it. BTW, each Salt Stick Cap has 11mg of magnesium. Take 1-2 max per hour of activity.

http://www.saltstick.com/

I'm no expert but at 4-5 hours you need to be fueling your body very different from 1-3 hours. Crazy stuff starts happening to your body. Might want to try the Hammer Perpeteum Extreme Endurance Fuel. Stuff is for prolonged endurance type events. Must be kept cold or it will go bad (some freeze it to last longer) but you can carry it as a powder and just mix it with some water during a break.

http://www.hammernutrition.com/produ...-energy-drinks

Very good article on cramping from mxconditioning.com. Thank you. I think in my case it's a matter of "all of the above." Since my cramp onset is usually 4-5 hours into my activity (mountain biking, half ironman triathlon, enduro, etc...) then I surely need glycogen, which I take care of with a single cliff shot once per hour. Electrolytes, covered, I use Nuun in my camelback. I drink lots of fluid as well. Too much at times, since I end up peeing!

The stretching is a fascinating theory. I buy it for sure, it was my first inclination. My brother in law is a chiropractor and he encouraged me to get flexible for these events. I began a stretching routine back then. I'm still quite flexible today. I will now dedicate more time to stretching.

Thank you very much for posting those links skidad!

Also get cramps on the inside thigh,the groin to knee muscle.When it happens it's really bad & bloody hard to stretch out.Do you take the mag. tablets pre-ride as well?

Ooooooowwweee. I hate those cramps, there a bastard to get rid of.
I take the magnesium tabs normally at the first chance I get during a ride, normally the first pit at an enduro, but for a XC I take them right before the start of the race, and at each pitstop along with a leppin squeezy gel shot. And drink lots and lots of this endurance drink which has amounts of magnesium phosphate in it, but the pills work much better.
Like I said, never had them while riding, normally I tire after about 4 hours of riding, and by that time the race is finished anyway. But I have gotten those nasty thigh cramps before on the way home, and had to do the mad dance stretches on the side of the motorway before :D

Thats the dance!I'll get some tomorrow,thanks.

You absolutely take the tabs before a ride.

Revisiting stretching... My cramps are usually in my foot, or my hand, or finger. Occasionally in a big muscle, but mostly in muscles that are not really ones that you think of stretching. My favorite muscle cramp is in my chin/neck/jaw. I don't know what it's called, but it's that part under your tongue between your jawbones. It's awful. Fortunately, it'll hit my foot, or radial muscle before that one.

Ohh i get that one when i'm yawning sometimes, man that hurts! have to drop everything and massage under my chin to make it go away, dont know how i would cope if that happened whislt riding!!

After some reaserch, and talking to a nutritionist I have some info. Apparently the human body likes to be slightly alkaline in it's PH balance, preferring 7.3-7.4. I took a reading and am at 7.1. The nutritionist works with several long distance athletes and says that there are several ways to keep your PH where it should be, most of which involved eating lots of green vegetables, especially spinach and broccoli, and cutting back on meat. I'm not keen on cutting back too much on meat, but I digress.

She suggested a product called Acid Zapper acidzapper.com. Using this product apparently helps get your body to that ideal, and they claim you can't overdo it, which is good, because I'm overdo it boy.

I ordered some of their tablets and granules for the camelback. I'll report back when I can test it.

that may explain why cramping is never an issue with me. vegetarian for 22 years. no cramps, but a plethora of other issues :)

Initial report.
I used the Acid Zapper this weekend on a ride that should have certainly made me cramp. I did not cramp. Didn't even come close. Pretty excited about that. I'll post updates as I get more experience with it.

I have heard that magnesium helps you absorb other minerals that you need. I do know that you must start frequently drinking water a day and a half before your event. If you wait until your thirsty you will never catch up.

Follow up to all this. After several months of using Acid Zapper, I have found that I can still cramp if I let myself dehydrate. I have also discovered Clif Shot blocks. They are much easier to choke down than gels. They also seem to help with electrolyte replacement.
Alas, nothing seems to be the "silver bullet." Stretching is crucial, as is hydration. Good thing for me, the combination of all of this has resulted in much less cramping. The last cramps I had were at the Idaho Qualifier after being sorely dehydrated and overworked!

I have read that when muscles are simply pushed beyond their "normal operating range" they will cramp. The theory being that training and conditioning can extend the "normal operating range". Assuming hydration and mineral replacement is kept up, the performance of the various muscles we use when riding will improve hugely the more we ride.
Roost, have you noticed if you are cramping less as the season progresses?
For myself anyway, I know at the start of the season, even though I drink heaps, I get lots of cramps - but after more regular riding through the summer, the cramps "barrier" is usually pushed out to say 4 hours.

I have noticed that the more I have been riding, the less of a problem it is. Last month I did a three day epic mountain bike ride, with super technical terrain, and hours in the saddle, over 100 miles in all. I never came close to having a cramp. I was well hydrated, well fueled, and had the benefit of lots of rest, since I just went to sleep when the sun went down, and others drank beer. A further benefit was that I had plenty of rest stops on the trail, since I was far from the slowest in the group. Not like racing a motorcycle, but it was plenty long, plenty tough, and taxed the leg muscles pretty hard. I do think the intensity of racing has an effect too. Just the nerves, and the total concentration, and maximum effort.

been using endurolites from hammer nutrition and and havent had any cramping since ive been using them. they also take any cramping away instantly. got a few guys also using them with great results

I have found drinking Powerade while riding eliminated my cramping, including the delayed onset leg cramping in the middle of the night after the ride

Cramping doesn't always have to be a result of dehydration or fatigue although those are most common. Another factor is mental stress as in nervousness causing tension. I have witnessed this in tennis matches with a lot of pressure on the outcome. A player experienced cramping early on in a match and then when this player has resigned to losing he relaxed and stopped cramping and began to play well to the end.

Here's an observation based on no data but it seems that most of the guys I know who are prone to cramp are also the high strung guys with leaner than normal bodies.

That's an interesting observation about type A skinny folk! I are one. An Ectomorph as it were. My dad too. I wonder if there's a solution other than just getting super fit and relaxing!!

It's funny mike - but the number one thing I was going to suggest to you is to focus on riding much smoother - go fast without looking like you are.... conserve energy. Riding - Zen Style...

I was thinking about riding behind you to videotape you - and focus on riding with a "more quiet" riding style.

Jeff

The gasser is the PERFECT bike for riding "zen style". I had mentioned in another thread the theory of "visualising yourself" through corners - I was actually only half joking!

At a XC I did last weekend, I got passed by a KTM, then followed them for a few km, and couldnt understand why they were braking so much ( its obvious with a KTM, it was squealing away ), I could ride at the same pace quite easily without the need to brake nearly as much as they were.

Barry, I still find it hard to believe you ride at all, im sure you just push your bike through puddles to make it dirty :/

BAAHAAAHAAA noobi 1-bchatt 0

Yeh, well, the reason my bike looks like it's hardly been ridden is because the only part that touches the ground is the tyres - unlike yours, on which all sorts of parts touch the ground numerous times a day, you know, like handlebars, footpegs, front mudgaurd, back mudgaurd, muffler, seat, radiator shrouds:D

one all????

Back on topic...

I have ridden with Mike and he is very, very fast and has a aggressive riding style. Squares off corners and gasses hard, etc. He has the ability to do it due to his excellent physical condition - but, I think, now that he is getting a little older - he needs to smooth things out and loosen up.

One thing that can force smooth riding is to practice on a grass track and time yourself to get a feeling for your "real speed". You can "feel fast" but not be fast.

And one thing about the gasgas power delivery is that, when set up properly, it has smooth and linear power that gets all the power to ground and you can go faster with less effort.

jeff

Another great read.
Cheers around the world to all the Gasers and cheers to the mederator who got this thread back from being hijacked!
Cramping and muscle fatigue is a big issue for all of us.

This comes from the "relatively"old guy returning to the sport after a couple decades of absence.

"We all know where we finished.....do you remember where you started?"
So thanks for the ideas, the links and the knowlege that we are all the same

I use the same stuff, in a capsule form and have not cramped yet, I take one pill the morning before a heavy rider...light rides I just use plane water.

I am weary of taking a lot of supplements and any added salt at my age...a triathlete friend was taking all sorts of stuff...and I mean bags of different colored pills.
He just went thru some major kidney stone removal sessions and his doctor attributed to the high salt intake as well as the other stuff he was taking...and not enough daily hydrating.

I know guys like this too, jugs of powder, bags of pills, etc. So much of this stuff is produced in unregulated facilities with questionable QC. Do you really know for sure what your taking? This scares me considering we are living in the day where some snot nose kid MBA can look like a hero by sourcing bogus materials from China to save a buck. I had a dog killed by food produced with contaminated Chineese wheat gluten. Think about it.

Good point !
I read pickle juice is good for preventing cramping, or getting rid of them.