What about the EC250f?...
 

I haven't heard much about the Yammie powered 250f in the 4t section. Does anyone have any knowledge of how they are performing? It appears to be a good match up with the fine handling chassis and very potent motor. Any good reviews of the machine? Thanks!:D

There have been a few reviews elsewhere and they are very positive. There just hasn't been a lot of bikes out there so far.

I don't see what could be wrong with it. Probably the best 250 four stroke engine on the planet, though Husqvarna might argue with that.. Matched with a far better chassis than Yamaha offers. I'd want one, but it has two too many strokes.:D

Husky can argue all they want, but the Yam has the reliability track record to beat. In general if you follow reports on the new Husky you will find it has its problems. The Yam motor is like an HD big twin or 350 Chevy in the sense that there are parts on every corner. I have ridden a couple Yamahas in some slick nasty terrain, and they were easy to ride except for the extra seat height that I was not used to. Yeah I'd love to try the GG250F, I'd also like to know what one weighs ready to go.

I was told at the dealer show last year that they weighed the new bikes and the pre-production 250f weighed within 2 pounds of the 2010 ec300. Production models have a different gas tank and muffler but probably aren't any heavier. The production bikes also have a hydraulic clutch cable conversion that the bike at the dealer show didn't have.

They tested it over here and it received a bit of criticism. Suspension was still a bit harsh and the motor wasn't setup right. Since that the UK models have been shipping with a different end can. The summary was that it wasn't bad but the actual Yam was better, a little cheaper and KTM have moved 250F on a notch beyond the Yam as well. They thought if you wanted easier to ride and reliability you'd probably buy Yamaha, if you wanted ultimate 250F performance you'd get a KTM. Having borrowed a KTM for a race due to my FSE450 blowing it's fork seals on the trailer I can report the KTM is a cracking little bike. Had I not known I would've thought it was bigger than a 250 the way it went once it started revving.

Having said that I think the Husky TE310 and the KTM 350 when it arrives in enduro trim will be the ideal bikes for UK enduro. Easy to ride but with a tad more torque than a 250F.

I read the same review in TBM.

Basically, sounds like you are better off just getting the Yamaha and setting it up for personal preferences.

I picked up an '07 WR250f this summer for my son, but have been riding it myself. It has all of the free mods and has been "uncorked" and re-jetted. I have been very pleased and completely surprised by its capabilities.

It is a very fine singletrack and tight woods bike. Puts all of its 30 H.P. to the ground and tracks very well. Nice plush suspension and will corner on rails is you push it. If you ride it in the mid-upper revs, it can scoot nicely, even with my 225 lbs. on it.

I may be hooked! But, my son has his eye on it and I will need a new ride soon.

That KTM 350 makes me salivate!
I still think I'd take the Gas Gas 250f over the straight Yamaha. The suspension can be tweaked, the engine super easy to dial. The Yamaha chassis can never be made to feel like a Gas Gas. Not that it's bad, it's a great bike, it just doesn't have the USB cable connection to the brain that the Gas Gas has.

It's still a four stroke.:p

I have ridden the Gas Gas 250f 2010 model briefly and was pleased with it: enough power, good brakes, good suspension and doesn't scare the shit out of you like a big two stroke. I would recommend such a bike for a beginning enduro/trail rider who doesn't weigh more then 80 kg in full gear. It's a bike which you can buy and don't grow out of it for years. For road use and open trails it's just enough horsepower but for all other riding circumstances fits me perfectly. (with at least 4 cm lowering offcourse since i'm a lightweight shortie:o )

I look at it this way: The GG250F is more appealing to current GG owners who are curious about a 250F because there is no unknown. You know the chassis and how to set it up, and most of the parts are common with your 2stroke. The motor is highly developed with a big knowledge base. How can you screw this up and make it not work well if your reasonably good at bike setup? Jetting and suspension settings you hear about? Give me a break these are adjustments that any serious rider will address on any bike.

I'd like to add one, or maybe a 125, but not sure I'd like to replace my 250 2stroke which is the gold standard.

I read an early ride report on the new KTM 350 that said it was closer to the 450 side than 250. I also saw and looked one over and its a nice bike for sure.

Seems like there is some movement back to smaller cc bikes over the past year. KTM's 350, Gasser 250f, Husky's whole line of small bikes.

I love the power of the 250 2-stroke, but the reality is it is a 49 HP motor and there is no way I can come close to using all of that in the woods.

I think I am growing accustomed to the fact that a 250f or 125/150 2-stroke is a deadly weapon is tight terrain and hard to beat.

BTW, I am not convinced by 1 article that the Gasgas 250f is a dog. I would really love to ride one. I love Gasgas' approach to building quality, functional off-road bikes. Hopefully they will catch on and more will be imported (especially to my local dealer;) )

I think it depends on your terrain. A 250F is good for anyone in the UK up to Clubman level (intermediate class) and probably fine for mid class Experts on timecard enduro terrain. Having raced the KTM 250 EXCF I was stunned by the performance for a 250F - I'm 110Kg!

I don't get the GG 250F. It's n-1 generation Yamaha engine. They don't appear to have done anything worthwhile with it. It might've been ok had GG stayed with the Ohlins/Zokes setup. I agree they need a 250F to complete the line up but I think they should've waited until they could do it properly either with their own motor or by modifying someone elses to be a bit special. But ....... I heard rumours they're selling like hot cakes in Spain but that sort of brand loyalty isn't going to work so well in other countries. I suspect the price they're paying Yamaha doesn't leave any room for mods.

I agree completely. Our time keeper enduros are the type of terrain you are lucky to get out of 3rd gear. Most of what we have on the west side of Oregon/Washington is wet, steep, and has the 3 deadly R's (rocky, rooted and often rutted).

A small cc bike that wont wear you out is key in this environment.

One thing to consider it that the Yami 250f motor is a fantastic motor once uncorked. Many who have ridden it back to back with the Husky TE's and even the TXC's say they are very close.

Stateside, Thad Duval did very well on a WR250f in the GNCC series last year and in the Enduro World Championships, Christoph Guerrero does a great job on the little Yami.

Personally, I'm not sold on the 250F. I was stoked on it, but GasGas Pacific lent me one for a couple weeks to try out and afterwards I wasn't impressed. The chassis is flat stunning (though the suspension could use a revalve). It feels light and will carve a line under anything. The problem is the motor. In two weeks, I could not get it jetted right. It constantly had a bog off idle that killed it in the tight woods. I ride really technical singletrack and could not come to grips with the bike. It needs a drastic dose of low end power. Any sort of obstacle directly out of a corner was brutal on the little bike.

I've ridden a few other 250Fs and been impressed. If I was in the market for a 250F, I'd get a KTM. Any small bore will handle well (it's hard not to) and the KTM engine flat rips. The price of the GasGas is high (though it is dropping) and for the price, it's old-school with no real advantage.

All that said, it would be a wicked project to put a 290 big bore in the little Gasser and try to get the engine to work as well as a KTM. As it is, I stuck with my EC250, but just recently bought a Husaberg FE390.

Did you mess with the leak jet and accel pump adjustment? A friend and I got his WR running real well with the JD kit and these adjustments.
Also, I wonder what CDI they are using, as these have changed a bit.

If I had one, I'd buy another motor and build it up at my leisure with the best components. In fact the thing to do would be to buy a used one when it pops up on ebay and do just that.

KTMs run hard but if it goes boom its not worth fixing.

Tried a JD kit, leak jet adjustment, fuel screw, accelerator, no luck on the jetting. Supposedly it's better now, but in the two weeks I had it, I could not get it to run right. Revved out it was good and a lot of fun on 2nd and 3rd gear trails.

The first EC250Fs that came to NA were full-on EU homologated bikes that were totally choked up and had a muffler that you could stick your pinky finger in the end of. Those bikes ran like crap, plain and simple. I do know 3 people who have ridden the EC250Fs and they all agree that in EU spec, they suck. Jet them right and slap and muffler that actually flows air through and the bike works great!

1 guy I know put an FMF Powerbomb header from a WR250 and an FMF muffler on it and the bike rips.

The later build bikes that came to NA have come with an FMF Powercore muffler and they run like they are supposed to.

Initial review from TBM on the EC250f was also that the bike was restricted and they couldnt sort out the jetting. They could not come to terms with the engine.

Second test was with a DP pipe. They liked the results, but felt the Yami had more snort with the stock pipe.

One thing about these Yami's, 450's included, is that they can be a pain to jet and get dialed in. I had a WR450 last fall and it took some time to get sorted, but once there, it would rip your arms out of the socket.

With my Yami (really my sons;) ), I uncorked it, put on a FMF pipe, removed the AIS, re-jetted, O-ring mod, AP setting, the works, and the bike has no hesitation whatsoever. It will lug all day at idle, then twist hard and it rips without a hickup. I have only stalled the bike twice in very technical boulder fields with my brother on his EC250 smoker stalled right behind me.

Yes, these 250f's do take some tinkering to get dialed in, but once there, are very effective. Reminds me of jetting a 125 2-stroke.

I had about 1/2 hour test ride on a ktm 350 sx on a nice little sand mx track. Very nice bike. It been awhile since i have been on a 4t. it did not seem to have excessive engine braking and the motor seem to rev nicely. I think in xc w trim it could be a market killer. Like they need more market share already. :(

I think from reviews in the UK and comments here the pipe is killing it. Yes I'm sure it would be a great bike if you uncorked the motor, rejetted and revalved. But how much have you just spent. Why not buy a KTM it's lighter and you only need spend a fraction to get it setup right? They work well out of the box. I think when we all move to 300/350 it might open the market up.

What happened to Honda in this space? They seem very disinterested in enduro / trail.

I think GasGas's best plan would be to work hard on a 350 motor. That's go to be the killer capacity. Light and agile, enough torque and power when you want it but easy to keep controlled when conditions are tricky. Probably easier to build a competative but reliable motor than a 250.

I have said this for a few years now. The larger the engine, the more room you have to compromise in design. With a 250F the balance between power/weight/reliability/cost is so fine its tough to hit in a design. Thats why the Yamaha is a good bike for the masses because they have come the closest. Done right it would have to be started on a clean sheet of paper, no sleeved down 450s (like the previous gen Huskys) or big bore 250s.

Then you have the possibility of the DI 2-stroke, which if successful may render 4-strokes obsolete. For a small company like GG I doubt there is enough engineering manpower and $$ to push forward with both projects in a reasonable timeframe.

gasgas250f
 

hey there.i rode the new 250f .it is very nice.i live on vancouver island in canada and the trails here are very slow...i didnt get a chance to open it right up ...4th and 5th gear...but i rode it back to back with a yamaha wr250f and it blows the doors off the yammy...i have ridden the yz and wr 250f ever since they came out...the gas gas set up is definitely way better...i am partial to gassers but i do love the yz motor...what gasgas has for a muffler and their jetting is so much better than the corked up wr...it has very good grunt and pulls hard...it even sounds nice...oh yah ,they modified the yammy clutch and attached a hydraulic unit to it...it works very well...twice as easy to pull...no adjustment...yummy...the bike doesnt feel as heavy as i know it is...im guessing it weighs around 250lbs...real weight...i would definitely consider the bike if your compaing it to japanese stuff...it turns way better than a ktm in the tight stuff too...dave at gasgas pacific here on the island was nice enough to have one as a demo.....i love this guy.....if your ever up here somehow im sure he would let you take it for a spin....just be careful...you might end up buying it....see ya

fishlegs,

Good report and good to hear from someone who has ridden both the WR/YZ and now the Gasser.

I hope to see one at my local dealer soon.

Hijack.....
We could start a new thread, but I'll tempt here.
Honda is, in fact out to kill trail riding, and dirt bikes in general. Check out superhunky.com If we start a new thread over this, I'll post the article. Remember, Honda was the first to drop their entire line of two strokes. They also contribute to the Sierra Club. Talk about counter productive. I won't be buying any new Hondas, that's for sure.

Well that a very different impression to the ones tested in the UK. I hope it's true. The WR's I've ridden have been good, the KTM better. All turned ok.

Bought the 250 and except for some jetting issues the little bike is great, it flat out rips [for its size and mine] have installed a jd kit and uncorked the muffler ,still has a little hicup off idle[working on that] but iam very happy with it. I usually like a bigger bike , but this is a fun bike, and really whats perfect out of the box

I may get one as a second GG. Been considering selling my Duc and getting off the street anyway, but deal would have to be good. Do they come with the full Euro harness and switchgear? Don't need that as I can't get a plate anyway so I'd strip it. What springs are in it stock? Fuel tank is small which is a potential issue. What is the range? Thanks and good luck.

Good info on the motor over at Thumpertalk in the WR/YZf 250 section.

Getting the WR motor jettted spot on does take a bit of tinkering, but once you have the motor uncorked and jetted correctly, it will scoot.

I am riding my sons '07 WR250f a ton lately and am loving this little bike. Fun, stable, corners very well, e-start and very easy to ride. Again, not a powerhouse, but ride in the upper revs and it will reward you.

Never thought I would say that after 6 seasons on a smoker!

They work VERY well in the snot, where 250 2-stroke power is useless and you spend a lot of time and energy managing it. While the WR is a good neutral handling bike, its no match for a newer GG in cornering.

I'm a trail rider and I think the 250f would be prefect for me. I'm out for fun and don't need to have a killer motor that scares the crap out of me. I'm about 165 lbs and 5'8". I really liked the engine braking on my old KLX300R...one less thing to worry about. Yes, the gas tanks isn't big but for what I'm doing it should be fine. Who knows, maybe a bigger tank will come out. Now to find a great deal on one. As a trail rider, it is still hard to paying out 7500 US for the GG. The Yamaha 2009 WR can be had in my area for 5999. Hope that those left-overs that Clay just imported are going to be around that 5999 mark...

I do not want to add another brand and deal with another set of spares, etc. I like the GG chassis, just interested in a less intense bike I can push harder, which is more fun sometimes. For most enduros I'd still ride the 2-stroke, unless it was really slick. I think the '10 leftovers were just the 250/300s.

Seems that way. Well, I'll hold out hope for the unicorn to show up.

No unicorns, but a trio of 2010 250Fs made it onto the arc for its trans Atlantic crossing. Have your dealer contact Clay (or in the case of you guys without local dealers, give me a call) and get your reservation in ... quick!

The 2011 250F's (when they finally arrive), will they have the red frames like the 2 strokes? Only 2010 look bikes with black plastics and frames on the GG Spain web site so just wondering?

Color don't mean squat to me, I'm a function before form guy.:D My main must have is the Zoke forks, because I have my '07 working so good I can't wait to ride it again.

Its too early for me to make a move on an '10, likely I'll have to sell my Duc to afford one so a Feb date is OK if I decide to do so. Also have to pick up an 85 for my kid too bad no GG 85. It will come down to price and I also would like to compare it to the 125.

Clay, how many '11 250Fs and 125s are headed here?

250f info, holds 7 litres of fuel , i did 70 km single track and still had 1/3 of a tank a little heavier than my sons ec250 , but a feather compared to my berg. came completely street legal except no paper work, so not street legal here. forks are 45's with 4.5 springs and rear sachs @5.2

Bought myself a 2010 GasGas EC250F last week.
My main purpose for the bike was to have a bike that is light on fuel to follow the wife around when we are out riding or doing the easy "Funduro's" she participates in.

That machine impressed me so much, i actually think I'm going to race it in the next GXCC (similar to GNCC in the states)

What a great bike.
Smooth and deceivingly fast.
Handling is just typical great GasGas maneuverability

Yes its not the fastest thing on the straights, but in the tight and twisties it is deadly.

What a machine!

Yep, I am just LOVING my 2010 EC250F. Very easy to ride, excellent in the tight, technical gnarly trails we have here and has never once seriously tried to launch me into a tree. Has more than enough power to do anything I want to try.

Best thing about it is the Yamaha motor means I can get parts anywhere.

I have raced mine (2014) hard for two years now, sporting a Rekluse Exp 3.0. It is however not easy on fuel doing this, a full tank of 8 l keeps me going for 2 hours. I have for this season opted for removing the Reklse and moved back to std clutch, to be able to pull it a bit lower down the revs. For the gnarly riding it is really good, all the power I need. For the grassy field type of venue, the 250f falls a bit short of power imo.

Took mine for a post-suspension setup test ride the weekend.
It performed exceptionally well everywhere.

We have a very deep sand section on one of our venues so i thought maybe there the 1/4 liter 4stroke would struggle a bit but no. It just flies over it.

I'm starting to love this bike proper!