Falling forward?
 

How do you get in the right riding position standing, so you don't feel like you are going to fall over the bars.

I was thinking about putting a riser on the bars to see if that helps. I have the bars rolled forward so they are even with the fork line.

Was doing some practice on the hills on the property and noticed I am really uncomfortable standing! Any braking and I'm over the top and way unbalanced.

I'm 6'2" is that helps. Arms span is about the same 6'-6'4" or so. I'm proportionate.

Bravo try standing steer with your feet , I like trials riding and that is how I ride my enduro bike . Practice ,Practice ,Practice and most important have fun ;)

I did a Chris Birch coaching day a few months back and his technique was more of a crouch than a stand. Get your lower leg vertical and locked into the seat from there you sort of crouch down so your back is not straight up and down. Elbows nice and high. With your elbows like that you are less likely to feel like going over the bars.

The more technical it gets the more you crouch down, getting your butt closer to the seat and your head further down.

It doesn't feel right the first few times but trust me, stick with it. It will probably hurt your quads and back - as in using muscles you haven't used in a while, not doing any damage.

I was always comfortable standing but using this technique I feel much more balanced and in control.

Hope this helps.

I'll have to try that.

I have been looking for day camps in my area and haven't seen any. Where can I look to see camps and training that I should take?

I have been to the trials train center in TN. It has been helpful

Go to the Trials Training Center I have driven around a 1000 miles one way twice for training there .They rent bikes and really can help a newbie out a lot .

I'll have to check them out. I just looked at their site, this might be the way to go. It's on Trials bikes, but should be able to transition to Enduro with little effort.

Was just talking to my better half about this, going to a training day camp.

As above-Try keeping your lower legs in tight when standing,steer with your knees,be active with moving your weight around,and set your levers level with bars even if it feels too high(keeps the weight on the outside of palms and stops your wrists rolling forward and taking the weight on your thumbs-basically makes your "triangle" wider and more solid,as does keeping your elbows high)
Practice!
With time you will get used to that "hit" youre struggling with and learn to use it to your advantage
I also attended a chris birch day(highly recommended) and interestingly he was not a fan of bar risers and pointed out that virtually none of the top riders use them.Not sure if your bike has adjustable bar mounts,but if so,move them forward one position,lengthens reach and raises slightly.Most newer bikes the bar mounts are slightly offset so if you rotate mounts you get position 2.Some also have a 2nd hole for mounts giving positions 3&4.Chris recommended the 2 middle positions for virtually allriders as the closest and farthest positions start to compromise the handling/ergos.
Of course,he asks a bit more of his bikes than most of us could hope too!
He made the point that the manufacturers spend a lot of time and effort setting ergos up so the bike works well for a wide range of riders so moving too far away from standard is likely to have a tradeoff somewhere else...

Find some decent riders to ride with.You sound like a true beginner.You need to find a riding crew that will take you in and they will get you up to speed.They will also help you with bike setup and maintenance crap.

What everyone else has said.

The biggest variable with the setup will be you. Rather than searching what you can change on the bike to make it fit you, do some reading and research and then apply the knowledge to make you fit the bike.

There are pages upon pages regarding technique so no point going over it again.

Remember, once the bike is in motion, the rider should be too. The ground exerts forces on the chassis, some is absorbed by the suspension, some will need to be by the rider. Your joints make great secondary shocks.

Instead of fighting and holding on to the bike and trying to wrangle it, learn to control it. Clutch, throttle, brakes and body position. They are all variables which will change the way the chassis moves and handles and the forces will be passed onto the rider so the way you move has to be as variable as the rest, and work to offset the forces.

When you're doing it right you won't feel like you're hanging off the back of the bike as it comes on song. You'll be wicking it up, leaning forward and letting the bike 'push you' forward with it. It all takes time, and all takes practice.

Start slow, let the muscles build, learn the right skills from the get go, avoid bad habbits, and enjoy the experience.

I think this is one of the few advantages of being a stature of this pilot is (1.65m), unable to sleep well on the bike. I realize that high pilots usually use the extenders on the handlebars, which in my opinion is a big mistake. I suffer in some situations due to my height, but not for that destroy the geometry of the bike to mask these situations. As everyone commented, train, train, and you will realize that the right moves will be rooted in the brain and become automatic.

I walk in off-road since 1997, and recently, just after starting to see and study videos of Grahman Jarvis, I realized how important the clutch plays in off-road riding! Wow, what a difference there is when we face difficult situations using the clutch and throttle control when and only use the accelerator .... how long lost .....

Brap!

Hey Bravo, I'm the new owner of a '01 GG XC200 (light flywheel model).

Me and a couple other old guys are riding at Wayahutta , a NFS off road area in W NC, near Sylva NC. You're welcome hook up with us for a day.

My 200 works very well on those trails, so you'll be able to compare your '99 with my '01.

I found my '01 ran more like a pipey 125 when I first got it. One step richer on the pilot jet changed everything. Now it idles well and pulls good from down low, even on steep rocky trails with a smooth transition to the higher rpms.

You're welcome to join us for a ride.

RB

That sounds like a plan, I live about 2 hours from you. Come down there and see about you all coming up to Doe Mountain up here.

PM me with contact information.

I just looked up this area, looks like a good start for me. The trails we have here have rock faces and some nasty spots that can be a real pain for a new rider!

PM sent.

RB

I put the bike back together today. I can't get the brush guards to fit right, so I took them off and moved my levers in a bit, so I can shift and use the clutch without pinching my other fingers. Set the levers level or just a tiny bit below level. Got the bars set so it keeps my elbows out, not down.

Going to just ride it this way and make my body work with the bike and not the bike work with me. Knees tight against the bike seemed to help a LOT with riding and feeling connected to the bike. I never put my knees on the tank on my Harley.....But this is not a Harley, so time to stop thinking like it is.

Sounds like youre making progress.The power delivery of a 2t is completely different from ANY other engine.When you get used to it,you will LOVE it!

Well took the bike out for a nice 4 hour ride today! Wow, I am spent! Need to get into better shape.

With all the advise and body position suggestions, it all worked!

Squat not stand, elbows up and head down (looking forward). It felt totally different than riding around on the property. Hit some rocky sections, not river rock, but just baseball size rocks and some football size rocks. Keeping loose was a big help and letting the bike bounce under me was great. Stayed in 2nd gear and used the clutch to keep traction and stay moving.

All and all, I am very please and am now officially hooked on DIRT BIKES and trail riding. Practice Practice and more Practice!

Bike ran great, didn't bog down and stay moving as long as I keep the RPM's up when pulling over larger rocks and in ruts.

You are right, I have to learn when the hit happens and be prepared for it. I was not prepared a couple times today and wow, it can get hair fast. But once I figured out the clutch a bit better and covered it with two fingers, I was good. It hit and I was able to ride it out or slip a bit and keep it under control!

The hit/speed that you approach all these scary obstacles will slow down as you get used to it - more riding - my first bike was an 82 xr200 and I remember my first ride I thought it was way too fast. For the area I ride. I replaced it about a year or so later when I found I was riding it flat out (not so fast for an xr) all the time

Just look where you want to go, never at the scary stuff you are trying to avoid

I tried several times today to stand while riding, I just can't get comfortable. I feel like I am going to grab a hand full of throttle or hit the brakes and fall over the bars.

Even squatted a bit, but my legs can only hand that for so long. Bent over a bit and still just didn't feel right.

This might sound retarded, but put the bike on the stand and climb aboard.

Get yourself into position where you can be on the pegs in a neutral position without leaning on your arms. This will take the variables of forces and motion out of the equation and give you an idea of how you need to be in your neutral possie. From there you need to adjust to compensate for the actions of the bike.

Don't be so hard on yourself either. It's early days and it will all feel unnatural, sketchy, and likely a little scary. While you still consciously have to think about what you are doing and what you have to do, you will know you are still deep in the learning curve... think about the first time you do anything and how much attention and concentration it takes and still not being sure if you're doing it right. It often feels awkward even if you're doing well.

Riding a dirt bike isn't a simple task. It's a complex balance of many individual tasks being put together in delicate balances with perfect timing. Reading the terrain, looking ahead, selecting lines, compensating and correcting for mistakes, finding traction in various terrain, applying the right amount of throttle and clutch at the right times, balancing, feeling the brakes and understanding how and where you can slow the bike, gear selection, etc etc etc.

Then you have the physical aspect on top and managing to continue to do all the above as muscle fatigue sets in. There is a lot going on!

Add to that, that when you're new you are compensating for all the mistakes listed above generally with physical/brute strength. You fight more! You drop the bike more, you expend more energy just doing the simple things, and it all adds up and typically compounds on itself. I've seen some old fat blokes haul on a bike, and some of the fittest people break under a day in the bush. There is a lot to be said for 'ride fitness' and it's really less to do with being 'fit' than it is to do with 'good technique'.

Good technique comes with seat time, practice, more of each, and so on. For some it comes naturally, for many it takes more time. One thing you have on your side is that you have the opportunity to learn good technique right off the bat!

Excellent explanation.

I agree 100%.

There's a lot of talk in here about technique.Some I agree with and some I do not.

However you decide to go you cannot get there if you are not reasonably fit.
I say reasonably.The reality is that the majority of recreational riders are way out of shape in relation to the activity they are doing.They have the fancy bikes ,graphics and all the best gear.But really they got nothing.They will not even come close to meeting their own potential much less the machine they are riding.

Its a grueling physically demanding activity.
Get fit.Biggest issue is avoiding injury
You show me a large group of out of shape fancy boys and I'll show you a large group of guys plagued with nagging injuries who's best riding buddies in the past have already had that crash that ended their riding career.I use career lightly but you get the point.
In this game it isn't a matter of if but a matter of when.
So staying in shape to avoid injury and being in shape when crash time comes is extremely important.As you progress in skill you will find you can go ride after ride without a big getoff.
Doesn't matter.Someone.Some jackass retard maybe drunk squid is gonna cross your path at some point.Maybe an animal like in Casselis case.
Something unforeseen or unavoidable, it will happen.

You don't have to be a gym rat Olympic athlete.There are many awesome workouts and combinations of things people can do.
But won't.So keep it simple.
An elliptical machine set on a good resistance with some incline will get you there.
30-40 minutes 3 times week.No hands.force yourself to balance and position your body to apply force and build a rhythm and tempo to maximize the workout.Build your core, cardio, teaches you to pace and breathe and relax. Basically all the things you need to do when you leave that truck and head up the mountain and you got a fast guy up front.A large majority of riders have the ability and skill to hang, some, a bit for the first mile or so.But then it's game over.Has nothing to do with ability or skill or how awesome a bike is or the bells and whistles.
The rider is outta gas.Overheated, fogged up, arm pump , cramps, some nagging injury etc.etc.

Am I wrong??

These guys are all giving great advice. Some decent fitness goes a long way. Especially preventing injuries. Mostly though, I think a riding class and lots of time on the bike will get you all set. I've been riding since I was a kid and still fight bad habits.

I think once you are able to trust the bike and understand its limits it will help a lot. I pretty much stand the whole time and feel less fatigued than if I was sitting. You learn to use the forces acting on you to help you relax.

As far as falling forward, if it makes you feel any better, much of the time I'm on the gas, I can look at my front number plate. I'm 6'4".

I'm 6'2", so we are close.


With what everyone else has said about fitness and being in shape.

I AGREE completely, however, I have spent more time in a gym than I really ever want to again. My username is the MOS I had in the ARMY, fitness was part of life while I was in. I'm out now, if I am not having fun I'm not doing it any longer.

I have gained weight from being 215lbs and cut, in shape running 7 minute miles and doing the never ending push-ups and sit-ups. Now, I'm fat and out of shape. The issue is how do I have fun and get back into shape?

Gym membership, not happening.

I work outside a lot, so I may be fat, but I have stamina that could walk circles around many of these so called "In-shape" people. Been there done that, muscle heads that can lift but can't work a full day without being torn down at the end. While I'm ready to go have a beer and play golf or whatever else.

gasgasxc: Your comment about "Its the same group that only rides together and you are never invited along.
It isn't because they are unfriendly pricks.
To them out of shape egotistical wanna be badasses are their biggest fear and worse nightmare on the mountain."

These are the people I don't associate with anyways. Why? There ego is just as big as the next guy yet they forgot something; at one point in time they also started somewhere and they also had the gear and bling. I'm all for riding with people that are about the same skill level, but there is a difference in belittling new riders and helping push new riders.

Example: Guys I rode with yesterday B riders, good guys. Yet they were happy to have someone new to ride with and took the time to show some lines and pointers as to how to take some of the rougher sections of the trails. They also understand that riders get better with time and experience.

Me personally, I would rather ride with people better than me. Give you that extra push to learn more and do better. But it takes a special person to care enough to wait from time to time for them to catch up. Seriously, how bad is it to stop for 1-2 minutes every 4-5 miles for someone to catch up to you. Grab a drink of water, smoke break, piss break.......The slow guy it sucks, they just keep moving.

The post isn't directed at anyone in particular..

Riding offroad is a culture, it's a lifestyle in its purest form.

The message is.Get fit.
Not world athlete fit.But reasonably fit for the activity you are doing.A very basic fundamental part of athletic sports.
You will hear rider after rider bring up the fact that riding dirtbikes offroad is considered to be by some as the most grueling and physically demanding sport there is.
It certainly is high up on the list.
So, I'd say "generally" the majority of riders aren't prepared physically.

"Technique" for any sport or athletic endeavor is only practically applicable to an individual who is reasonably fit for the activity.
Avoiding injury is a first priority.

I agree completely off-road riding is a demanding sport for sure.

I can feel it in my body today, not from muscle issues...But joint issues from the wrecks.
Didn't get arm pump once yesterday! Was happy about that and rode from 1100-1600 with little to no issue other than wearing the wrong undies! Ouch!

I'm going to work on getting in shape, but my approach will be different. No gym, just hiking and riding a lot. My bike will be my gym once I get it fixed.

On a good note, the guys I rode with yesterday have a tractor with a front end loader. So they are going to come to my 7 acre property and make a training track that we can play/learn on. I just don't know anything about single track building, he does.

Hahah!! I hate the gym!!

I mountain bike whenever I can. Usually just an hour here and there. Mountain biking single track helps with my dirt biking too. I also leave one of those little hand exerciser things in my truck. It's always in the way which is a constant reminder for me to use it. Then throughout the day I will just do a set of push-ups here and there. But for me, the biggest thing is just watching my calorie intake.

If you are looking for the funnest way to get and stay fit? Ride your dirt bike as much as possible! If I could get out on the moto as often as the mountain bike I'd be super fit...

That's the plan, making my property into a nice single track is in the works. Couple hill climbs, creek crossing, creek bed riding and some tight woods riding. Just fun and a workout, the real workout is going to be making the trails!

Well I guess I'm the exception here. I believe that "seat" time is at the top of the list for improved riding and "gym" time is way, way down. I know 280-300 pound guys who can ride their ass off all day and "fit" gym types who are crushed physically after only a few miles of technical riding. Getting in shape can help you to get riding better a little bit quicker but never swap "seat" time for "gym" time. Trail riding uses muscles that even very fit people don't commonly use so the best physical training for riding is actual riding. I do believe that watching training videos can be very helpful. Proper technique and line selection can make your riding much less physically demanding. Trust us it will get easier with more seat time.

We think a like. I am all for being in shape, but I am not anymore, I left that crap in the Army.
But working muscles are different than gym muscles, seen it time and time again. I may be fat, but can hold my own in a days worth of work and then still want to play after the work is done.

Once I get the bike fixed I plan to make a trip down to your neck of the woods!

You are fortunate that you approached this forum early. You have a chance to learn to ride with Good technique rather than have to unlearn bad habits. There are loads of YouTube vids and DVDs (Gary semics, Shane watts etc) that will help you understand the correct position. You need to practice the correct positions to the extent that they become your goto "oh sh!t" position. Standing is one of the most important skills to learn. I was fortunate that I started on an '82 xr200 with terrible suspension so if I didn't stand the bike would kick me off at any opportunity - this is most likely why GG decided not to put any cushioning in their seats, they don't want you to use them ;-)

While I agree fitness is very important I think I have learnt more being unfit :) When I had my first child all else stopped but I stubbornly continued racing tough enduros and I quickly learned that if I was going to survive the laps I would need to make all climbs in one go without having to return to the bottom and do over or fall and have to pick the bike up. It quickly became 110% concentration to recall and enforce everything I had read and heard about dirt biking and taking a minute to select good lines. With fitness I would most likely have bulldoged my way through everything. Now that I have proven to myself that the theories work in practice fitness will help me do it quicker and more often