2018 Starter Fix Thread - Continued.
 

This thread is a place to continue the tech discussion on 2018 Starter Fix thread.

I deleted the thread that was started today. And no, I don't have to give a reason why.... So don't ask...

jeff

Tech Bulletin
 

In the new world of social media, instant response, and hidden identities, along with the crazy political world of lies, democrats, versus republicans and everything in between that is considered fake news.

Let me stress again that there has indeed been a fix for some of the new 18's that are starting electric start issues.

#1. A tech bulletin to our dealer network was sent on November 14th. We have emailed several times and it is the first item dealers see when logging into our dealer portal. We will start calling EVERY dealer starting tomorrow to speak directly to the service manager of each location as it would appear that some communication isn't getting to the customers that are experiencing a starting issue. (or there are those that just want to continue a dead end thread to see whose buttons they can push)

#2. There was and is no intent AT ALL of deceiving anyone or ignoring the situation as some had previously claimed. Again, tech bulletin was released in North America in the middle of November after extensive testing, research and communication between the factory, ourselves and some dealers that sampled our simple repair.

#3. Most all of the bikes after the simple first two tech repairs do and are starting great. If after the AUTHORIZED DEALER has accomplished the first two tech updates, and the bike will not start, there is a 3rd step that will be the final resolve.

#4. Please allow time for this tech bulletin to happen at your dealership.

#5. GasGas will stand by our warranty to the fullest in comparison to any other manufacturer. We are trying to catch up on those bikes on show room floors and hope all resolved very soon.

#6. New containers on the ocean already have the updated starter as well.

#7. If for some reason you wish to continue disbelief or have conspiracy theories, please private PM me so we can have that discussion. The previous thread was closed by the moderators because it had ran its course and the fix is out there.

Thanks Mark for the post. I have an 18 ec and just want to congratulate you for your input on the forum. Also, my faith in the brand has not been tarnished whatsoever by things being said on this forum. I put a new battery in mine today and it seems to have fixed my starting issues at the moment. I've been injured since purchasing the bike so haven't really been able to give the starter a good test as yet. Hopefully Australian dealers are made aware of the tech bulletin just incase I do come across issues down the track.
One thing for certain, every thing I disliked about my 2012r 300 was fixed with the release of the 2018 model so I know that the powers that be are actually listening to us, the consumer. Something that the old company to some extent failed to do to some extent. Once again thankyou and I encourage you to have an input on this forum. To anyone on this forum who is an Australian dealer it would be great for an input from you guys too. I do realise that this forum is mainly for US owners but for the rest of us it's really all we have.
I look forward to be a long time customer of the brand.
Regards
JC

It doesn’t seem anybody here is in manufacturing! If they were they would know just how amazing it is that Mark the Operations Manager for NA actually responds in this fashion. This sort of communication and transparency is just unheard of. Other brands have struggled with starters for YEARS, not weeks. This may seem slow to some in this day with social media and immediate information but a consumer will not speak with an Ops Manager for any reason in any industry for the most part.

And also maintain the integrity of the dealer network while doing so.


My hats off to GasGas.

If you want the latest and best equipment, you have to have a little patience. Even the best machines and products in the world can have minor teething problems. Its seems like GG is on top of this issue.:)

The system may be sensitive to the amount of charge in the battery. Did you charge it? Does it do any better if you jump it from a car battery?

Is there an upgrade for my 07?

The starter seems a little lazy especially after the 2nd lap or if he's fallen off. :)

:eek:
Same issue here with my 06...
Trying to get it fixed at the local gym :D

What are some of the symptoms of the starting issue on the 2018?

I've just got done breaking in my motor and took it on it's first real ride today. Some times I would press the starter button and absolutely nothing would happen. Other times it would turn over maybe one time and then stop.

Other times it started up with no problems... just wanted to check on this. I'm hoping it doesn't get worse. Absolutely loving the 2018 though. gasgas's best bike to date!

The demo I saw would crank over really strong. No issues with the starter motor engaging, however the bike would simply not fire. Throwing out the kick starter and giving it a boot it would fire straight up.

Good to know, thank you. Im sure if I toss in a new Shorai battery, my starting will be a little more consistent.

What about that technical bulletin noted on the other thread? Upgrading the gauge of the wires.

I have been working on Gassers in Australia since about '02. I love the bikes to death and this 2018 update/revamp is so good I went out and bought one!
One test ride and I was hooked. Kyb's and that grunty 300 motor :D

On the starter issue, from what I have seen Is like the Mark from GG has said it is not all bikes that are affected. I have seen the 'spin all day long but not start' fault (as if no spark) and the usual effects all two stroke starter motor 'stall when the battery/motor seems to struggle to get past tdc.' This one was simply overcome by another stab of the starter button.
From what I have seen is the main battery earth doesn't go to the starter motor like previous gassy's so adding a earth strap is one thing owners could do to eliminate voltage drop. And the bike that previously had the fault had it's cdi swapped between a few others and since then never failed to start.. so maybe just a dirty cdi plug. Also worth a try.
I am sure these things will be/should be checked by your dealers but worth mentioning.

I missed all the drama! I?ve been too busy riding this amazing bike. I?m having the starting problem as well but I haven?t taken it to the dealer because I can?t stop riding it! This hasn?t bothered me much, especially after I rode with a friend and his battery died on his new beta. It doesn?t have a kicker! 🤦*♂️

Hey Nate,

I just bought mine - super stoked with it!
Quite easy to ride too for a 300 2t!

I am having issues with my electric start though - it will spin the motor no worries but won't start it. Sometimes it gets "hung up" but pressing the button again lets it spin up.

It will not start in gear with the clutch in, seems to start in neutral though

What model is it? 2018 or 2019? How many hours on it so far?
Have you tried any of the listed fixes yet?

I only picked it up today. Really clean low hour bike. Has done 6 hours.

Have not seen any fix's in the forums yet. Still trying to figure out everything.

Do you have a link to the fixes ?

I think the battery ground was suspect from some reading earlier?

Also do they have a steering lock key? Mine didn't come with one and I couldn't see it.

I have so many other questions about it too though

No links but the fixes that have been brought up...
1. Stronger battery
2. Larger ground cable
3. Having CDI re-mapped
4. Cleaning all ground points between battery and starter
5. Replacing the bearings in the starter mechanism
6. Replacing the starter itself

Least the first 4 items seem straight forward.
How do you remap the CDI? Are dealers the only one who can do it?

Are there any trouble shooting methods to determine if it?s the starter itself? I have done the first 4 and have good voltage everywhere

Dealer has to do it. Contact your local dealer and see if your bike's CDI has been updated.

You can pull the starter and bench test it. It should run smoothly with no unusual noises and no slop on the bearing the shaft rides on. If you're going that far, check that the bearings that support the bendix and the starter spin easily and smoothly.

In my opinion, from all that I have read, I believe the CDI, the starter mechanism bearings, and the starter are the cause of the actual no start problems.

On the side mounted KTM starter motors, they would fail to start the engine when the speed began to drop due to worn bushes or battery charge. There was some kind of sensor in the Cdi that stopped the spark from being produced.

You could override this by quickly pushing and releasing the kill button as the starter was spinning and the engine would immediately fire up. Don't know if this would work on the GGs.

Cranks OK but no start
 

I tried depressing and releasing the kill botton while cranking but still no start.
Then if I kick it starts ok.

Seems to crank fine using electric starter but often no start unless engine is warm.

If you pull the spark plug, are you getting a spark in all scenarios with the starter?

How many kicks does it take your bike to start?

If I have primed the bike and get a good kick, just one kick generally. But sometimes 3 or 4.

The drill to prime the bike is turn on the fuel, put bike in 2nd gear, rock bike forward and back 4 or 5 times to draw some fuel vapors into the engine. Then put bike in neutral, slowly depress the kick lever down until the piston comes up against compression, very gently depress kicker until piston is just past top dead center, let kicker come back to top and give it a good full stroke.

If engine doesn?t fire in 3 or 4 kicks I reprime.

Once started, I blip the handle bar mounted choke to keep it running and rev it a bit. After 30 seconds or so I start riding slowly, test the brakes and throttle, do a few full lock turns to get my balance, a couple straight line runs to clean out the bike and then go riding.

Rudolph, that is a good question. I will pull the plug and see if I have spark with the electric starter. Will report back.

One more piece of information. Before I installed additional ground wires from the battery to the coil and from the coil to the starter bracket sometimes it took many kicks to start. And the number of kicks seems to be random. I suspect I was not getting spark and I noticed that the hour meter speedometer display sometimes did not illuminate while kicking.

Note that I did not install the factory recommended 8 AWG wires, but used much smaller 12 AWG since that is what I had available. I think the 12 wire has helped the kick starting but not the electric starting.

You can always add a 2nd run of 12AWG to the starter bracket and go direct from the battery.

Yeah, 12 awg is way too small. Double up or fatten it up.

Hi guys new to the forum and new to GasGas also. I?m having big problems with my electric start. Worst part of the bike to be honest. I love the bike apart from this issue. How can I tell if my bike has had any of the aforementioned updates from dealer recalls? And if it?s had all of these why is it still not working on the button? Thanks.

I checked the spark by leaving the original plug in the bike to keep a load on the starter and wiring. I pulled off the spark plug boot and inserted a new B8ES plug.

When I depressed the starter button there was no spark for 2 seconds then some spark for about a half second and then no spark for a couple seconds. I did this 3 times with the same results each time.

So while cranking when the engine is cold there is mostly no spark. The outside air temperature was 80 deg F.

Sounds like the CDI is being affected by voltage sag while cranking.

I wonder if the starter is not turning the engine over fast enough for the generator to deliver sufficient voltage to the CDI to make it spark.

Or is the voltage regulator doing something strange?

My dealer says he never heard of larger diameter cables fixing this and never heard of a kit.

Dealer says that since the ignition is not battery powered he doesn't see how starter cables could effect the spark. Perhaps it has to do with the speed of the cranking being too low to generate spark.

Does anyone have any information I can send him about fixing this problem?

At any rate I got some 8 AWG wire and am going to run some ground wires to the starter and coil along with new wires between the battery Positive and relay and the starter.

My dealers 2018 demo used to do this. It definitely had nothing to do with cranking speed. It turned over like a rocket and continued to on the button. It simply wouldn't fire.

If he kicked it she'd go right away. Once started it would start on button.

I think he fixed it through cleaning up the ground points, but not certain..

The updated wires made a big difference on my 18 EC250. And with the bigger battery my starter haven't failed a single time.

If the starter cables can't deliver enough power from the battery the starter will take power from the alternator also which is probably why the ignition coil doesn't get enough power to create a spark.

So is there any official fix documentation that I can share with my dealer?

I would like to educate them if there is actually a fix so that he can make future Gasgas riders happy with their bikes.

Every one that rides my bike loves it and wants one. But I always get it started first and warm it up a bit.....

Get your dealer to speak directly to the USA importer. That should have been their 1st port of call.

The USA importer has no fix either.

I called up all the dealers within reasonable driving distance to me - only ONE had any idea what I was talking about.

They got in contact with Gas Gas for me and checked my VIN to see if any of the fix's have been done.

Its going in the next few days to get the following done;

Upgraded/Replacing battery cables
CDI Reflash
Flywheel replacement - Anybody share some light on this?

All free of charge.