Extremely hard starting problems
 

I have a 2004 Gas Gas FSE 450 and even with a fresh new battery and plenty of new fuel in the gas tank, I sometimes can't even get the bike to start, or sometimes it will take up to an hour or more.

I turn the key on, open throttle for about 4 or 5 seconds then closed it and hit the start button 2 seconds later. The engine cranks real good but just wont start. Using the kick at the same time or by itself doesn't work either. :mad:

Also a lot of loud "gunshot" type sounds keep coming out of my muffler randomly when I hit the start button.

I have been told to hook it up to a Magneti Marreli VDST program with the cable that hooks up to my ECU but don't know anyone or any dealers in the state of Washington who has this?

Any other clues what this might be or what I can try? Anyone else had the same problem for your 450?

Thanks for all your input.

Crankin04

Try this: Ignition on, open trottle fully, hit starter buttom with trottle still open. This only works good with engine cold.

I had similar experiences with my '05, found that spark was lost while starter turned the engine. When I released the e-button, I would get irratic sparks.
It was possible to kick start the bike, but it wouldn't fire using the e-starter.

When I measured battery voltage while starter was running, I only had 9V at the battery poles. What happened was that the voltage dropped so low that the efi stopped working. The problem in my case was a slightly damaged starter engine, which made the turning a little harder, and the starter used more current, pulling the voltage down.

And, opening the throttle with engine stopped isnt gonna do a thing for you. The EFI runs the pump to set up proper system pressure, but there will be no injects until the engine cranks.

Awesome. I will give that starting tip a shot tonight. I also went ahead and bought the Techno Research VDST software and cable. Can't wait to get that and hook it up to my ECU, and get the fuel trim fixed up and TPS reset :).

You know any of the settings for the VDST program I should use when tuning the FI?

Thanks!

Crankin04

If it has not been serviced for a while check the valve clearances. If these are out a lot it will cause problems. You can also check if it's a voltage drop by jumping it with a big car battery.

Mine starts by cranking with throttle open a little bit then closing while still cranking. It doesn't start easy but does always start. But ... I hear every one of these bikes is individual in its starting technique.

Guys I have hooked up the technoresearch VDST software and increased my fuel trim a little bit (was at 22 now at 35, then tested at 40, 42, 45) and also reset my TPS using the Buell procedure and it said PASSED.

I also had my valves checked a couple months ago and all looks good according to the service shop that did so, but I still cannot get my stupid bike to start cold. And if I do, it's like almost an hour later :mad:

What the heck else can I try? I thought the TPS Reset was supposed to help with this...?:confused:

Guys I have hooked up the technoresearch VDST software and increased my fuel trim a little bit (was at 22 now at 35, then tested at 40, 42, 45) and also reset my TPS using the Buell procedure and it said PASSED.

I also had my valves checked a couple months ago and all looks good according to the service shop that did so. Made sure their's plenty of Gas and my bike battery has full power and fully charged, but I still cannot get my stupid bike to start cold. And if I do, it's like almost an hour later :mad:

What the heck else can I try? I thought the TPS Reset was supposed to help with this...?:confused:

Crankin04

I remember that, on earlier models, if it failed to start in the first minute - you had to turn the key off and let the bike sit for a minute or two for the ecu to reset. Then try again and it would start.

jeff

Allright then. I'll try and start her up after I get off work and if she doesn't start within a minute I'll turn it off for a couple minutes then try and let you know how it went.

If you or anybody else has any more tips or thoughts on this, I would greatly appreciate it, as I love my bike but losing SERIOUS faith in it..:(

The backfiring has me thinking. I wonder if the woodruff key on your flywheel has sheared??? That would at least be an easy fix, and super cheap.

This would certainly change your timing enough not to start, and could cause backfiring. So it begs the follow up question: When you have been able to start the bike, how does it run?

It runs really good once it's been started and running. Especially since I adjusted the fuel trim to be a little more richer. I guess I will look at the woodruff and see what's going on there, cause it back fires A LOT upon startup and once it's been running..thanks for thoughts

I'd like to hear how it all sorts out. I hate mystery problems like that.

I sheared a woodruff key once on a vintage bike. It would run really strange, but still seemed fast enough. It was partially sheared at the time that it would run, then it just wouldn't start or anything.

If the key is sheared, make sure you lap the surface of the crank perfectly smooth again, otherwise the key will shear immediately the next time you try to start it. I only know from experience.:o

So key looks good as well as valve clearances. Still no luck :mad: ....I'm almost losing faith in this bike (Not Gas Gas altogether, cause I know the newer 4 strokes have the FI setup correctly).

Any other ideas guys? I turn the key on, the fuel pump primes up and makes the sound, I hit the e-start and the motor turns good and it goes *bump**bump**bump**bump* and wont start.

What I still haven't done is a TPS reset, and probably other things. I replaced the spark plug this year, but maybe I should get a different model? CR7A or CR8A? Any thoughts or other suggestions?

Thanks for all your help

Crankin04

Before you go any further...have you done a compression test?
How many miles are on the bike?
Once running does the bike run normal? Will it bum start easily? I'm not too familiar with the FSE models. Do they have a diagnostic feature on the ECU like the Husky TE's or TXC's?
Maybe a phone call to one of the boys from Gofasters is in order 320-839-7143

Good Luck http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/imag...ies/cheers.gif

What happens if you jump it with a car battery?
Just wondering if it simply isn't turning fast enough.

I have a Varta battery which was the one with the best cold cranking amps (CCA) I could find (that show specs at least) that fits and it still doesn't turn it over fast enough in my opinion.

I have hooked it up to the car battery, and sometimes I can eventually get it to start while working with the throttle (opening and closing while hitting e-start), and sometimes not at all.

I don't know what to think. Once I get a TPS reset procedure from Technoresearch or a call back from one of the dealers I've left messages with about it, we'll see how that works after.

Thanks for thoughts guys.

Crankin04

If you install a new plug use a cr8ek, dont ask me why but i swear mine starts easier and idles better with one. Same on my 05. Current is 07. When you try to start hit button once real short then try cranking if it doesnt start quickly then hold throttle wide open and crank.

What info does the technoresearch software give you about the sensors. If the temp sensor is faulty it could be too lean on cold startup. Does it start easier when it's hot? Try starting it with the temp sensor disconnected and see if it makes any difference.

Where is the temp sensor located exactly? I have ran through all the tests that the technoresearch software has and they all PASS.

I was able to get it started yesterday fairly quickly with hitting the e-start button slowly and only holding for about 2-3 seconds max until it started. Opened throttle a little bit too. I did have the fuel trim set to 65 which standard for my bike was set at 22. Maybe that has helped? I ran it and it ran pretty good...:)

Thanks

Crankin04

Check out the ambient air temperature sensor. It is located under the seat facing into the airbox and can get dirt oil etc stuck to it. It is a cheapo resistor type so anything that allows moisture to track across the pins will have an effect on it's value. Be careful how you clean it as it looks fragile.

Cool. I will look at that tonight and clean it out carefully then see how well the bike starts from there.

Thanks,

Crankin04

The software has a metering mode, where you can see all sensor readouts, as well as throttle opening angle(as measured by the TPS sensor), rpm, and temps. Verify those temp readouts to actual surronding environment. Water temp sensor is located on the left rear of the cylinder head, close to the intake.

Berg,

Where is this metering mode your talking about, where I can see all the sensor readouts? I can go to the Gauge menu and see the throttle opening angle degrees and rpms, etc. but not the sensors? Where exactly is the air temperature sensor? When I take my gas tank off, I can see where the gas line goes in and some other sensor to the intake. Is that the water or air sensor?

Thanks again,

Crankin04

Should be Gauges, doesnt it look like this?

Okay I see the Air Temp. Hopefully I can find the sensor physically on the bike and clean it too.

Thanks

Crankin04

i have on 08 thats having the same issues, runs fine once its started but can at times take 4 to 7 starts to get going then the next time it starts first thing, it also back fires though the airfilter and out the exhuast when its trying to start, once its goin no backfires.

My gut feel is its the valves, my clearances are fine but i am about ready to take to the shop for a leak down test, if the vaves are seating correctly there should not be any backfiring through the airfilter, mine is this means the inlet valves are not correctly seated and allowing the back firing to take place while trying to start, i will post up the results in a week after i get the bike back.

Yeah let me know how that goes. My bike doesn't seem to be backfiring much anymore and actually starting really well, just not as good when it's been running for awhile and engine hot. I still need to do a TPS Reset, and if anybody knows how to do that, let me know!

Thanks again,

Crankin04

its not the valves, i have a blown head gasket, last ride i found milky oil in the airbox and engine, not real good the head gasket was replaced under warranty with the 09 version lasted 9000kms not even 2 years.

Hi gents ,
I know this thread was a long while ago ! But do you still have the 450FSE?!