Revised Jetting Specs NEDW
 

Here he goes again.. they all say

Today was a miserable day in the far north (aus). 25C 65% humidity and a bit cloudy. Pretty normal! Elevation 300M+

Previously I have ran the following setups
42P N3EW#2 178 - Bit rich off bottom. Strong mid to top.
38P N3CH#2 178 - So clean off the bottom but a tad lean in the mid range. Ran clean but lacked balls.
38P N3EG#1 175 - Rich idle, then lean and crisp throughout. Was in the middle of summer at elevations approx 900m.
38P N1EF#1 175 - Too rich all over. It ran but it loaded up in the tight and smoked everywhere.

Now today, today.. I decided to try a Suzuki RM250 needle. The ones the KTM guys (*nudge*) have been ranting about. Started with 42P NEDW#3 172 (triple taper with a rich top end). Bike ran but required to come out a good few turns on the AS to get a consistant idle. Also some burbling when on the needle howver very punchy and powerful. Very on off though with the burble. This was meant to be a smooth linear setup from what I had read.

Dropped the pilot to a 40 and lifted the clip to #2. Yep! That hit the spot. AS set at 1.5 it starts and idles well. No hanging, no bogging. Crisp snappy response right off idle that just keeps on building all the way through. No really hard transitions onto the pipe like the N3 range. A little bit of the typical burbling when at part throttle without load but nothing compared to how it was at clip 3. Plugs looks good and bike feels great. Its very responsive to throttle like the N3CH#2 was, but doesn't have a lean whole in the middle.

The difference being Suzi runs lean-rich (bottom-top) where the N3 run the other way. These needles just work and I'd recommend anyone else who wants good performance to give em a try. By far the best setup I've ran yet, and those who know me, know I've tried just about every combo under the sun.

Cheers, Jake

X2, absolutely the best setup I've used in my 11' 250 as well. On my 250 I use the #3 position and 2 turns out on the AS.

I have an NEDJ I can try. How does that compare to the NEDW.

Right now I am running the N3CH #2. 38 pilot 175 main and a.s. about 2.

I really like the n3ch but I have not been able to get a consistent idle using it.

What would you suggest with the nedj? 40p, 2nd clip,172 main.

This is on my 11 300 with 38mm carb.

Jake: Sorry to hear about the weather. If it was that nasty here I'd call in sick to work ;)

What bike are you running - a 250 or 300? Vintage? Any other mods?

Sorry its a 2010 Euro model 300 which uses the 38mm ASII (small bowl and flat metal cap) slide 7 non notched. S3 Head with black insert. Exhaust port flush with top of piston. Still large squish at 1.8mm.

The difference in the NEDJ is 2 steps leaner on the straight diameter than the N3CH and 1 step leaner then the NEDW/N3EW. I'd start by using it with a 42 pilot to compensate. I too found moving from the N3CH to N3EW cleaned up the idle issues.
So if you're using N3CH#2 I'd suggest trying the 42 NEDJ#2 172 and see how it feels. You can also get half clip adjustments (NECJ) etc.

not quite on topic, but if you riding v technical stuff (extreme enduro type) where you want a lot of traction and good bottom end would it be better to run a setup that is a bit richer at the bottom or would you rather have it crisp of idle?

On topic Matt :)

I agree sometimes a bit richer is nice as its more forgiving. I also find burbly rich more snatchy if that makes sense Ie. Burble then hit. The NEDW seems to be very linear and smooth in that you can control the power even at slight throttle openings and as you open more the power just builds. There is no burble down low or slow revving followed by abrupt power.

I rode some really tight 1st/2nd gear single track as part of my test run and while its crisp its not uncontrollable at all. Very very predictable but still makes gobs of power.

Jakobi,what are you going to do now you've found the perfect jetting?Could you maybe work out world peace & fusion power? Good work,thanks for your efforts.

Good question..

I refuse to do any self education in suspension because I know how it would work out for me :p Looks like the lady might be getting a bit more Jake time for a while ;)

If anyone else gives these needles a burl I'd love to hear the feedback!

I did some back to back testing today between clips 2 and 3 just for shits and giggles. Mostly as an excuse to get out of the house :D Lemme know which one you think sounds/looks best.

Clip 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7FfQ5dquaE
Clip 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlOq6WQXEtY

Both have a bit of chatter as the powervalve opens which is more noticable with the ignition in sunshine (more of a hit). As people have noted in the past its more present with the leaner jetting also. Clip 2 feels a lot more vibey through the bars in the mid range and the pipe also vibes against the header a bit more (need new o-rings). Clip 3 feels much smoother but also less crisp/snappy. I feel the front end wants to lift easier on clip 2.

After doing a decent ride with the NEDW on clip 2 I feel it might be a tad lean in the mid range or quarter throttle under load. Lifting the needle (dropping the clip) 1 position appears to make the mid range feel a bit better but then I suffer a mad richness right off idle. If I try and tune this out with the AS I then get a hanging idle.. Could just be my mind playing with me. Is it normal for the bike to sound a bit tinny as it first comes onto the pipe? What exactly does a ping sound like? its really hard to determine because its the very rev range where my bike vibrates the most too so is it a ping and higher pitch I hear because of being lean or is it just the bikes pipe vibrating and resonating a bit. The power still feels strong.

I think I'll have one more play with it in the days ahead before calling it quits. Stay posted.

Please have a listen and tell me what you all think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvRWt8XubK0

The only other thing I can think of if I'm still slightly pulling over on the spilot circuit, then richening the needle clip would then richen the idle and off idle mix aswell. What I may have to do is back out the idle screw some more and ensure the circuits are separated completely. *bangs head against the wall*

Do you have either a NECJ or a NEDJ to try? A J needle ought to work with either a 42 in warm weather or a 45 in cooler weather.

Why do you think it's lean in #2?

If you have the idle adjustment too tight the idle will hang unless you are real rich.

Only thing that makes me think I may be a tad lean in clip 2 is the sound at certain throttle. Unsure if its just the normal tinny kind of sound coming onto the pipe or not. Theres a definite area just after 1/4 throttle that sounds more tinny then the rest of the rev range but I'm not sure if its actually pinging or just some vibration.

How did the video sound on the ears?? The plug shows no sign of detonation.

It just sounds crisp to me. Pinging normally occurs under high load conditions, cruising up that hardpack road shouldn't be a strain on the motor.

If you think it's lean in the mid, bump up the main one size and see what changes.

Good thinking. Odds are its probably just the bike making normal noise as it doesn't appear to be doing anything else odd. Its actually running really well. This is my first 2 stroke so I don't really have anything else to compare it to.

1st 2 smoke. A smoker's power gets flat when it's too lean, they can be too lean, not ping, just be down on power.

Jake sounds good to me mate.

Perhaps ride a few weekends and then see what you think.

You have made so many jetting changes you might be thinking too much??? Just ride bro!!!!!!

I know I'm over thinking :) Maybe I should leave the go pro at home for a few weeks too. Its the watching it after that causes the over analysis!

What do you mean falls flat? Won't pull through when rolling on the power? or just slower and not as strong?

Like the motor lost its balls, weak, revvy, snapping open the throttle may result in a bog for a second

Cold start your bike, quickly turn off the choke, the way your motor acts before its warmed up is a lean condition (among other things). Just an example, not recommended as loading a cold motor can cause cold seizures.

Yeah I think its running nice :) The sound of the go pro is also makes things sound tinnier than normal. Definately no hesitation. Wicking the throttle at any speed or any opening results in nice clean response. I've got some more video up in the video section. More of a compliation/ride report. I'm taking GG Evos advice and just not touching it. I really am happy with the power and delivery of this needle and just have a bad habbit of over analysing. Particularly after a big ride, a few too many drinks, and an hour of watching footage!! :D

Hey man! I revisited the N3EH yesterday with good results. 42 pilot, N3EH clip-3, 160 main.

Ran good everywhere, pulled hard too. I will put in a 165 after I get it in the mail. The 160 is too lean with the double taper needle.

In a few days, I should have new top end gaskets coming and I will start tightening up the squish a little.

:) You're a bad influence Bailey! Hahah! My testing with the N3 range is done and dusted. For my conditions it didn't get any better than N3CH/N3EW both clip 2. I'm really digging this NEDW. I feel I can clean it up off idle a bit more with the air screw. I'll run a few plug chops on the main somewhere down the track but don't mind running a bit rich right up top. As long as it doesn't burble.

I was going to start another thread but maybe you could just PM me. Interested in taking some oil out of the fork and wouldn't mind a how to and how much air gap you're running.

I got ahold of a NEDH needle. I am currently running N3CH-2, 38 pilot, 175 main on 2011 300 with 38mm carb.

I think I will try the NEDH-3-, 40 pilot and 175 main and see how that works.

Any thoughts?

Hi Jeff,

Any reason you didn't get the NEDW? I found with the W diameter and a 40P I get a much more consistant idle than I did with the H and a 38.

I would start with 38 NEDH3/2 172 and start from there. The NEDx range is a triple taper which gets richer as you approach WOT and needs a leaner main. Its also leaner than the N3 range on the intial taper.

I started in clip 3 and burbled onto the needle. Lifting to clip 2 cleaned this up. If I was you, coming from the N3CH#2 I would drop the NEDH in at clip 2 also. Realistically you'll still be a half clip richer than you were in the mid.

It takes the N3 series longer to come "on line" than the NO or N1 series. By this I mean that the straight portion of the needle at idle and just of off idle is longer on the N3, which reduces the chances of burbling in that area.

I was running the NOZH clip 1, 42 pilot then changed to clip 2. Lots of burble in clip 2.

For experimentation purposes I then changed the NOZH out, kept the 42 pilot, and put the N3EH in on clip 3. I have a better idle than the NOZH on clip 2. I will drop it to clip 2 next time I can fool with the bike.

With the old style Air Stryker, I have gotten really good at a needle change. I don't even have to spin the carb anymore, I can just unscrew the cap and pop a new needle in there. Takes me about 3 minutes.

I have the NEDH because my buddy had an extra and let me borrow it. I will give it a try and see how it works.

Sweet as Jeff! Look forward to hearing your results!

I put in the nedh #2, 40 pilot, 172 main.

I ran practice laps Saturday and I did not like it. Bike had no snap and would not pull clean up top. I had to race on Sunday so I switched back to the n3ch.

I love the way the bike runs with the n3ch.

I am having a problem but I am not sure if it is my jetting/ carburation or if it is my Rekluse. I have had problems getting a consistent idle and the bike stalled on me alot Sunday.

The idle issues are really only with the bike in gear so I think the Rekluse may not be disengaging properly.

Sorry to hear you didn't like it. The needle definately doesn't have the snappy transition onto the pipe like the n3 range does. Its very linear in its delivery. The 172 is probably still a bit fat on the main. I have considered dropping mine to a 170 because I thought this myself however don't have one yet and have been too slack to order one.

11 250 6 days

so I put an nedw in today. I like the way it delivers power, nice and smooth but it seems to make the bike lean. I started with a 40 pilot and 175 main, went to a 42 pilot and then 45, needle on 3rd slot. still lean, went to a 178 main still lean, moved the needle to the 4th slot and it was better but still seemed a bit lean. temp was about 62F light rain to drizzle. 500 ft above sea level. cold is suppose to move in this week. As it sits I'd be concerned about this needle if it were 50F out. in its current state its not bad, bit of a burble in the middle. I run 93 octane pump gas, 10% ethanol. I'm thinking the ethanol has something to do with the lean condition. not sold on this needle at the moment. at least for when its cool out ....

Where abouts are you lean? Symptoms? Pinging? Plug? Loss in power? What was your previous jetting?

If you have a hanging idle and have come from a F,G,H diameter needle you may simply have to back the idle screw off. If the slide is lifted too high this too will cause hanging idle. 36/38mm carb?

had a 40 pilot, n1ef 2nd or 3rd slot 175 main a/s probably 2 out.

trying to get rid of the rich off bottom that clears out and gives you a bit of snappieness coming on the needle.

the nedw 3rd slot, 45 pilot and 175 main a/s 1.5 or so, felt good tooling around the yard but a look at the plug showed more white than I like. which was a bummer cause I was digging the crisp throttle. I popped in the 178, 3rd slot but went to the fourth

in its current form its pretty good up to about 1/2 or 3/4 throttle than you get a burble which then cleans out and it rips on top.

most of my riding is 1st 2nd and 3rd gear techy stuff. I like a nice clean throttle off the bottom

Ah yeah.. My bike would burble and carry on and was hardly ridable with N1EF any richer than 1st clip. Even then it was a bit rich.

Are you using a new plug or an old one? A new plug will always take a few hundred km to really colour up properly I have found. If you put an old plug in an it comes out white afterwards its a sure sign you're lean. What about oil around the threads? Any residue there? Mine was a beautiful golden colour down 3 threads after a quick ride.. To be honest I go more by feel and response than plug colour..

Both the NE and N1 range have a rich 3rd taper. You should be fine with the same 175 main. I too have the slight richness in the midrange but I think this is what gives it the somewhat smooth transition onto the pipe.

went looking to see if I have a 36 or 38 carb. The only number I can find is on the top cover where you pull out the slide ... says 36, so I'm assuming I have the 36. curious what would be the performance difference between the 2.

the plug has plenty of time on it.
as far as looks go
the insulator doesn't look too bad
the electrode that comes out if it doesn't look too bad, darkish brown
the little hook thing that the spark jumps too is pretty gray/white
The threads look a dry dark brown
the flat part of the threads that is pointing down into the motor is pretty damn near clean ... ie I can still see the gold color of the metal

The white-ish hook thing and the no residue on the flat part of the threads is what concerns me

oh yeah I am getting a hanging idle that drops back down after a bit and I have played with the idle screw. If I back it out too much the hang comes down quicker but then the bike won't idle. to get it to idle you gotta turn it in enough to make it hang longer than i'd like

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10670

It sounds near perfect to me.

Just confirming you are doing actual plug chops under load, and if you've done them at 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle. How far have you had to screw in the idle screw to get an idle? I'd still go back to a 42 and then back the idle right off to stop the idle hanging.

The 36mm carb should require leaner jetting than a 38mm. Performance wise it should offer a bit more low end resp at the expense of a little bit of top end.

Another Australian with a 2011 EC300 36mm came to this "after two days of jetting, ended at 40 clip 3. 175 (16 c at sea level) gobs of power and very linear with a nice upper mid hit when you get some space. "

MJC's settings are as follows:
Bike= 11' xc250 Six Days
Carb= 38mm ASII
Elevation= 0-2500
93 octane pump gas

Main=172
Pilot=40
Needle=NEDW #3
AS=2 turns out
Slide= stock #7

After reading this thread, I to picked up the NEDW to try on my '05 DE300.

My previous jetting was 38 pilot, 170 main, DDM needle in #2. I have tried a CCK as well, looking to clean things up and get rid of the some blubbery spots off idle up to 1/4 throttle.

I put in the NEDW #2 and left the 38 pilot, 170 main. I rode about 30 miles of tight singletrack, about 2000 ft. Lots of rocks and roots on these trails and most of the day is spent in 2nd gear with some 3rd gear flowing sections.

I really like this needle! I have very crisp, clean delivery from idle to 1/2 throttle where most of my riding is done. Power is linear without hesitation or blubbering. I have perfect idle at 2 1/2 tuns out.

Because things are so clean off idle and crisp, I had to be a little more careful since I was getting power to the ground quickly. I have a G2 throttle cam with the #4 disc which helps. I also rode all day in the sun mode because I like the quicker delivery at 1/4 throttle on up. I really like the smooth linear delivery with no hesitations or blubbering. I think it helps get through tough sections quicker and with constant hook up.

At 1/2 throttle I get a bit of lean hesitation, so I need to try a 172 or 175 main.

I did not check my plug, but still have a thin line of spooge down the silencer after a 30 mile ride. This may be do to a soaked silencer though and I should check my plug, which I will do today.

I have had tons of 2-stokes over the years with JD kits, RB carb mods, LT jetting (my last Gasgas), and I think this needle is as good as any set up I've used.

I got great mileage as well compared to the CCK which was terrible.

Thanks Jakobi for the great info here.

FF.. What temps and elevation? Have you tried running at clip 3 to see how that alters you mid range.

Temps were in the mid 60's to mid 70's. I was at about 2000+ft. elevation.

Haven't tried moving the clip, but that would be a good place to start.

Quick and easy and will let you know if you're going in the right direction, although my experiences have pretty much shown the needle to make the most different to the 1/4+ throttle area. Pretty keen to hear how you go with it all. Alot of my riding is also tighter trails with pleanty of trail junk, roots, rocks, ruts etc and really value clean response off idle and into the mid range. Cheers, Jake