EC 300 2018 starter problem
 

Good Morning,

Last Sunday the starter of my gasgas ec 300 stopped working, it worked without turning the engine. I dismounted the two covers, the bendix and the ignition to check and it was the bendix that was stuck and did not act.
After lubricating everything I set everything to see if it was ok, I mount it without putting the joints and now the starter does not turn the engine. The battery has 13V is still the original battery.
I give here a video of what it does now, i just orderer a new batery, should i try and make the wire mods?

I need to say that my bike has 70h now that starter allways worked, not 100% but worked when i needed cold and hot.

video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aq0Qx6sqeizHgoYY_RQzuOPAHPLmEg

Thanks in advance

If the starter is spinning and the bendix is not engaging, check the bendix. KTM units used to fail as the gears started to spin on the shaft and you had to replace the bendix. That could have happened to yours if the bendix has siezed up.

The beefed up battery leads need to be done anyway as the cable thickness is just not enough to pass the current the starter needs to spin at full speed.

If the battery voltage does not drop off when the starter is spinning then I doubt that the battery is at fault.

Hi,

I tested it with another battery, 11A 230cca, it just did the cliking sound, the theet on the bendix seems good, it turns as it should to actuate, i have the impression that it is getting stuck after it engages.

thks.

When the bendix gear was slipping on my KTM, you couldn't turn the gear on the shaft by hand. It needed the torque from the starter motor to cause it. I had to mark the shaft and gear to see that it was slipping.

Hi,

Good tip i will mark the bendix to see if it is slipping, will give feedback here.

thanks

Hi,

Checked The Bendix and its good, im thinking about The Starter now.

In the video you never pushed the starter button longer than half a second. What happens if you press it and keep it pressed? Do you hear a whining noise?

Did you check the voltage of your battery when fully loaded? If yes, what was the value? Did it ever work fine? When did it stop working? How many operating hours has the bike?
What was the ambient temperature when the starter failed?

Hi,

Yes it does the whining sound, it failed one ride, i didnt measure the battery voltage on load.

The starter never worked 100%, it was getting worse every ride to put the bike to start, i will order a new starter motor, prety sure that its the problem.

thanks.

Fit the 2019 starter wiring before you order a new motor. It could save you a big chunk of cash. Speak to your dealer as the upgrade was retro fitted to 2018 bikes. You may get the parts at a reduced price.

The bendix has to "spin up" quickly so the flyweights force the gears to engage. This is where the improved wiring and better battery come in.

A bike that cranks OK but does not start requires the better CDI. The bad ones won't spark due to the voltage sag from cranking. They do start fine with the kickstarter.

Mh... I'd check the voltage before buying a new starter. I really doubt that it is a faulty starter. A stronger battery doesnt help. I tried a booster on mine, its so powerful that you can start a Tiger tank after 60 years easily but my Gasser didnt start with it. I added new, thicker cables, got an updated CDI, added an additional ground cable between battery and starter, full program. Also greased the gears, nothing helped.
Suddenly one day it worked, no clue why.

I run a weaker Shido battery in my 2019 and it starts fine. I tried the stronger 2019 battery in my 2018 it still hesitates before it starts when cold... its a bit of a mystery.

Hope you get it sorted, keep my fingers crossed!

I didn't checked the voltage, but now with the new cables, it does the whining sound and it crack the motor for like a 1/4 turn.

Yes, it was same with mine. Will it crank and start when the engine is warm?

No, works the same when warm.

Have you taken the starter motor apart at any time?

I only ask as a lot of riders took KTM starters apart and then got the magnet polarity back to front and robbed the motor of most of its power. Very easy to do with that particular motor.

It could be the motor brushes that are either worn or sticking in their guides and not making good contact with the commutator. Worth a check but make sure that you mark up the casing for proper orientation on assembly.

Damned! Do you have a riding mate whith whom you could interchange the starter motor for testing?

Thanks for the tips, will try that and give feedback.

Cheers.

I haven't touched my starter yet as the bike is brand new so I don't know if there are referb kits available for brushes etc. They will be out there somewhere.

Jeff Slavens sells some kits for the KTM units and the parts may well be similar or the same. A lot of bikes have also used Yamaha oem starters and they have kits available.

Not only the starter motor. I used his carb, cdi, stator, starter relay, starter etc to find the problem my bike had.

Maybe riding mate is the wrong term, he is my best friend and we share a garage, so whenver spannering/riding we do it togehter.

The left is his, the right is mine...

What was the problem with yours Doc?

First was the typical starter problem, but that cured miracolously.

Second and worse problem it fouled plugs. 7 plugs in 8 hours. It fouled the plugs when idling, as well as when I blipped the throttle. Tried hotter plugs, it fouled them too. It was a nightmare... but all good now.:)

My Starter is working!
 

So my starter worked intermittently, most of the time a horrible clunk and no action. When the bike was hot it would generally start with the second stab of the button. (Upgraded battery, ECU remap, added thicker cables and a negative.) That was until last weekend when nothing would happen, so I cleaned the bike and pulled the ignition cover.
What I found was the bearing for the electric start gear was bad. So bad it is just about impossible to turn, put some heat on it and it would spin so-so. So my dealer grabbed an ignition cover off a trade in and presto working starter!

So if you have a starter that is not working I would check this out.

Hi

So similar problem that I had with my -18 300 GP.

And in my case it was the starter. Also my starter never quite worked and got worse start by start. And after 5 hours it just gave up.

The old starter (in this video I keep the starter "pinned" for seconds and you can hear the growling):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcoluzaeg4..._0024.mov?dl=0

The new starter (or actually a start of a demo bike from importer):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/74939ggfm6..._0027.mov?dl=0

So it just exploded running.

And yes, before the new starter I bought two new batteries and got one from GG (the one they recommend), had updated CDI from the beginning, had the wires done, and nothing made any difference.

So my money is on the starter motor...

Hi guys, just found where my problem was, seized shaft on the mechanism of the starter, if you go to the exploded manual, on the page where it shows the parts for the starter, the parts number 17 and 16 had given up.

The number 17 turns whit the stater motor but the 16 does not, i need to replace those but its a pain to take them out, tried last night with no success, i managed to take out the first bearing but this one is putting a fight.

cheers

Heat is your friend for bearing removal.

Think this may have just happened to mine, i've just got a free spinning sound. How did you diagnose this, marked it with a white dot?

For a short time my friends 2018 300 was starting fine. This was after the dealer gave him a new battery and an ECU. He had a problem with the small gear making a horrible noise after it wore the small cover oblong and the gear was trying to walk over the flywheel teeth. It subsequently fried the brushes. Now he has no spark while cranking. He replaced the gears the ECU and the cover as well as the the complete starter. Still no spark while cranking. If he kick starts it it immediately starts. Has anyone had problems with the wirings harnesses on these bikes. For 7 months since he bought the bike new his starter has not worked more than it has worked.

I have same problem, starter is turning engine ok, but no spark, no problems starting or riding with kickstarter. How to know do i have already new version of cdi software or not, flywheel? Spark comes with too high rpm to start with starter. I have wireing done, biggest battery there fits and even tried a car battery directly to starter, didnt help. When engine is warm (almost hot) then occasionally e-start works, mostly no luck.

I had the same problem, no spark using the starter even when trying to jump start. installed new starter last year and now has never failed to start hot or cold.

My friends 2018 has had 3 different ECUs and won't hardly run with a 2019 ECU. He has had 2 different starters and replaced the cover and most of the driven gears related to the starter including the flywheel gear. He's considering buying a wiring harness. His dealer has been good and has tried to help him.. at first with some new parts and battery and two ECUs. The dealer also sold him some starter gears at 1/2 price. Unfortunately he still has a bike that the E-Start doesn't work cold or hot. He has said more than once that if he didn't owe so much money on the bike it would already be gone.

I offered to look at the wiring schematic to determine if there's a separate circuit that is in use while cranking but the only wiring diagram he could get me was in spinach and lacked the detail I need to determine if it could be a wiring harness problem. I also understand that he is tired of throwing parts at his starting system with no success.

If anyone with a similar problem that has resolved it please post it up here.

Somehow we need to get spark at lower rpm, the rpm's that my starter gives at cranking should be enough to start the bike. I'm not willing to buy new starter, it seems pointless waste to me, if it's turning the engine with reasonable rpm, it's not starter's problem, but cdi or stator problem. In wireing, the circuits are independent, there is no difference to ecu, is it kickstarted, e-started or push started. I took all unnessesary off from the bike including light's, dash, nothing changes. If anyone has idea, what to do to get good spark at lower rpm, it would solve the problem at least for my bike.

What is different in wires on 2019 models? Are cdi's interchangeable? Flywheel the same?

I don't know on the interchangeability of the 2019 to 2018, the dealer sent him the ECU trying to help out. The cranking speed isn't the problem, his starter cranks faster than the kick starter. The problem might be the voltage drop because of the draw of the starter but I doubt it because it still won't start if jumped off a car battery which would for sure keep the voltage up. This is why I think it's in the ECU or the wiring harness which might have a circuit that bypasses a resistor during cranking. I would know this if I had a quality wiring diagram.

Quick update: We put a wiring harness on the bike and now it starts like a dream. Fingers crossed it lasts more than a week.lol

Wow! Did you replace it with a 2019 wiring harness? I was under the impression that that was cost prohibitive. Do you have a part number? Thanks

Jeff

It was for a 2018 and cost about $80 for the harness.

Thanks! Interesting that a new wiring harness solved the problem. That's the first time I've heard of that as a fix to the starting problem on a 2018, so the info. is appreciated!

Jeff

I have suspected from day one that there's some kind of bypass circuit that allows full battery voltage while cranking and for some reason this circuit was open thus no spark while cranking. I could not find a decent wiring diagram to study so that I prove my theory. My friend just took a gamble and bought a harness as a last ditch effort to solve his problem.

The way the subframe can pull on the harness while assembling the bike could be the cause.

I can not really understand the cause!
My battery (2018 OEM) turns the estart, but not enough for the engine to turn on!
It seems to be missing a bit.
A stronger battery would solve the problem, the principle.
But will the alternator keep this battery fully charged without damage for how long?
I really do not know if it's worth spending money on batteries?
Several reports that the problem comes back in a short time.

My friends bike started good for about 3 days and then the screw that holds the bearing on the worm gear backed out for the second time and bound up the starter. He has replaced almost every part related to the starting system and many of the parts have been replaced twice. Even with the help and discounts of his local dealer he has spent about $1,000 on starting system related parts and I can't even begin to guess how many hours. He is now looking at buying a TM or a Beta. I know another guy who's family has 3 of the same model GasGas 300 bikes and he hasn't had any trouble with the starters on any of them but he is on his 3rd complete top end on one of his bikes. I guess it's luck of the draw on these bikes whether you get a good one.

If you are removing the subframe and don't take the time to carefully disconnect the ECU and it's wiring harness you will put a lot of strain on the very small wires at the ECU plug in. This might cause damage in the wires in the harness or the connector and that could cause problems.