'04 FSE 450 Cuts Out When Throtte Applied - PLEASE HELP MEl
 

I have an '04 FSE 450 with about 2000 miles on it and here is the current problem:

I can get it started after some difficulty. If i attempt to accelerate or give it any throttle it will bog and cut out as if it is not getting enough gas. It seems to idle fine when it is running. It will only run for a few minutes before it dies or until I try to throttle up. I suspect fuel pump? Relay? Injector? I have no idea. Fuel pump primes when I turn the key. No blown fuses. It is in the shop right now but as of this moment they have not found the problem.

If anybody has this problem, suggestions, or even a solution PLEASE let me know. I need to troubleshoot and figure out what is going on with my bike ASAP as for I have a scheduled ride coming up that I cannot miss.

Thanks

swap the fuel pump and fan relay around, behind the left hand side panel, and see if it makes a difference,

What exactly does swapping the fan and the fuel pump relay do? That is just a troubleshoot correct? Not a permanant fix. Its just check to make sure the fuel pump is working correctly using the fan relay?

I would presume it is to prove that the fuel pump relay is/is not working correctly

hi, thats right, i had issues with mine, you would ride along then open the throttle and it seemed that the bike just wanted to die, i swapped over the relays after cleaning them, and that sorted it, two new relays, siliconed in, not had issue since. just swap them to trouble shoot.

the other thing to check is the connection between fuel tank and wiring loom, this seems to be a week spot, and my mates 400 rang like a bag of spanners when connection is bas, infact that has happened a couple of times this year already, the connections in that part are poor and small.

iv just bought a gas gas ec 450 fse on 03 plate .the thing wasnt running right when i bought it .it is exactlly the same as you ,i had a muck about with it .took the throttle position sensor off, and i had mid ,but no bottom or top ,i put the bike in to bike tech,said i dont mind spending 4/5 hundrerd to fix it ,as i got the bike at a good price,that was last satuday ,phoned dave yesterday he said it was a matter of elimination,he said its 2 hunderd for an injector but it might not be that .i can do that myself ,swap new bits till it goes, i was down there first thing and got my bike out off there ,how the f--- this guy is a gas gas dealer,GOD KNOWS,so my advice is dont take it to BIKE TECH ,anyway back to your prob ,i have now got the bike with a mates mate this guy is a specialist in race bikes ,a right clever cunt,so do me a big favour stay intouch with this one and vicer verser ,the min i know what it is youll be the first to know , if you find out first please let me know,dave ,

You really know how to fly the flag:mad:







Please dont think this is a typical Brit;)

nick
 

i take it you owe dave gasass money

Back to issue in first post,,,If you suspect faulty relays,replace them.I've generaly found them reliable.Whats not reliable concerning them is the wiring connections in the connector block.The bike vibes loosens them, they then corrode and give interminant perfomance.Even the wiring itself corrodes.It's an utter crap setup for an off road bike.Pare back all affected wiring and replace using solder and heat shrink.Finally solder new wires directly to relays.--problem solved.
Also btw use only FRESH high octane fuel.
Hope this helps
Cheers.

No, I've found him to be quite expencive, but he does know his beens.


Just did'nt like the langage you used in your post, your make the English look like thugs! I'm sure you did'nt mean to, I guess your frustrated and want to get your bike sorted? But theres no need to slage people off, is there?

And as for the "C U Next Tuesday" comment, sham on you!;)

Hope you get your bike sorted.

nick sorry if iv offended you ,but the fact of the matter is bike tech told me, "yeh we've got all the diagnostics gear down here no prob bring it down" i travelled 90 miles to take the bike there ,the min i got down there it was doom and gloom,all he wanted to do was break the bike .(its a 2003 in fantastic nick)when i took the bike out of bike tech he had lost a bit off the bike .which we looked for ,costing me another £35 quid from gas gas uk.90 miles four time's in a transit van ,eight hour driving .a guy that wasnt interested working on my bike .dont start me,pissed off ? your not even close, the bike will be fixed soon and when it is i will be slagging this guy off ,he might no he beans ,he must also eat them for breakfast lunch and dinner as this guy was out to f---me over a real cowboy ,when the bike is fixed i will be starting a thread, there stuff iv not said yet, i will be telling the full story when the bike is fixed , this guy is advertising as a gas gas dealer and bike technition MY ARSE

Well I'm sorry to hear that, like I say my experience with him has mostly been good. I run a 2t and obviously have only spoken to him about that, but I think most people in the UK will say he's good.The only time I had to pull him up was on the cost of parts, he sold me a piston kit that I could get much cheaper else where, so I told him and he gave me a discount, I'm just a bit more carfull now what I buy from where. If you stuck then Gasgas uk have a techical help line, when you can get hold of them there very good, but I understand theres only so much you can do over the phone. I used to be a bike mechanic, and it can be very hard to fine fault with limeted back up (one thing I find annoying about the Gasgas brand) sometimes the only way is to swap things from a working bike. Is there any way you can find a simular bike and start doing that?

All the best of luck anyway.

Got to ask, what part did he loose?

nick
 

it was the petrol insert that goes in the top of the tank .once again sorry about the french .i was just speaking my mind.anyway back to the orignal thread.the guy that is working on my bike will have parts next week.and i will let you know how i get on. good luck at you'r end.

Problem
 

Well I took the entire fuel pump out of the tank, disconnected and reconnected every wire on the bike. The entire bike has been stripped down, checked, and built back up. It went to a gasgas dealer, and they couldnt figure out what was going on. They were Idiots anyway and I figure I wasted my $250 I spent there to try and fix this problem, because it ran until I got it home.

I cleaned all grounds, filled it with fresh gas, battery is charged and I still have the same problem except now it wont even turn over. It will just give a "tick tick tick tick squeal" from the fuel injection on the right rear of the bike and then that is it.

RIGHT NOW I AM REGRETTING BUYING A GASGAS.

My bike has 2500 miles on it and I have had nothing but problems with it. I have maintained this bike better than most people maintain their exotic cars so I know it has nothing to do with that.

When I turn the key, I do not get the fuel pump prime. It just ticks from the fuel injection now. If I disconnect the fuel and drain the lines and then turn the key again the pump will prime, but then after it primes once to get the gas back to the injection system, it just ticks from the injection system. Injector was removed and tested. It sprays fine and has no problems so it is not that.

I am getting ready to ghost ride this bike down into the bottom of this canyon behind my house and forget I ever heard of gasgas unless there is some magical fix for this ridiculous problem.

it certainly sounds like the fuel pump relay behind the left hand side panel, that will certainly give you them problems as they are very temperamental, this weekend i have had exactly the same with mine, and also my mates .

What does it look like? How do I do this check? This dumbass tech I took it to didnt fix $hit on it after 8 weeks and $250. He ASSURED me it was not the relays. Who knows if he checked them. I guess im a more qualified technician than he is.

So as i was saying, where are these relays exactly? What do they look like and what do I do?

I appreciate your patients and willingness to help me. I am sorry for the angry attitude but I am this close to just setting this bike on fire.

Ok disregard that last question.

NOW at this point i removed both relays and swapped them. NOTHING. Same problem. *click click click click click click click click click* as soon as I turn the key. Could it be that both relays are bad? Somehow I doubt that. But the relay is what is making that clicking noise. Any other suggestions?

Are you low on Voltage somewhere? Mine made that noise when I fried the Batt/Voltage reg. The battery had 12 volts with no load but was only outputting 6 volts while hitting the start button.

Adam

That could be correct. The starter is a huge drain and the voltage will drop a lot if it's turning or trying to turn. The batter should be more like 13V when fully charged and probably show over 14V across the terminals when the engine is running - that's from the charging circuit.

I don't know the exact figures the above is approximate.

if it is just ticking when you push the starter button is that the solenoid clicking in and out for the starter motor? the squeel is probably the fuel pump, is the starter motor turning? whats the voltage on the battery? it could be possible that someone has swapped the relays over before and you have two bad ones now, they only cost about 3 quid each from gasgas so worth a punt and peace of mind, if there not knackered they will be soon, mine and my mates seem to last less than 500 miles before they go.

Bump, any news??

fixed
 

hi guys ,my babys fixed ,got the starter cog upgrade of rev it red,£50 for the three of them and its the one with the worm on .BARGIN.that was all down to mcludd ,so a big thanks to you .and the prob with the bike was pipe lose inside the tank ,the petrol was swerling round the tank ,pipe had come of one off the fuel pump so happy day's .big thanks to jjbaker1 to you'v been a great help for my sole, if it want for you i think i would of ebayed the bike,so thanks mate .jon send me a pm with you'r phone number an ill give you a call. CHEERS GUY'S:)

Good to hear mate, time to get out there and enjoy it

Have fun :D

Adam

Update
 

So heres an update on my bike.

I replaced the starter solenoid. To no avail. I checked almost every single connection on the bike. I am thinking maybe the battery (which is brand new) may be the problem but I cannot be for sure. Now at this point the bike no longer makes the clicking noise. When i turn the key no lights, no fuel pump, no clicking, nothing. The problem has somehow progressively gotten worse. The battery holds a charge IF i take the 3 amp fuse out. As soon as i put the 3 amp fuse back in the battery voltage goes from 12 or 10 down to 6 and begins to drain.

Heres the fun part. GASGAS people are IDIOTS. NOBODY HAS A SCHEMATIC IN THIS WORLD FOR THIS BIKE. If you think im wrong then prove it. I have tested every connection on this bike basically trying to find a short and I can almost make my own schematic by now but I cannot find the problem. I cannot find anybody who has any idea what is going on either. Nor am I within a close distance to a mechanic which so far none of whom I can trust since the last gasgas mechanic charged me a good amount of money for absolutely nothing.

If anybody has any ideas then shoot away, but just know I have tried it all except for buying a new battery even though the battery is new.

You probably have 2 faults causing confusion. You cannot be doing this methodically or you would've at least narrowed it down - ok you hate me for that remark but it's true, because there's no such thing as magic or gremlins. Take a few deep breaths and accept you may be in the garage with the multimeter for quite a while.

I'd suggest find the drain
Check the battery hasn't been damaged
Look for the starter problem.

Nono I don't hate you for saying that at all. I am ready to accept any help anybody has to offer. But here is one thing to think about: I have no schematic or anything that gives me the slightest hint of what is within the cluster#$% of wires that run all over this bike. Nothing to tell me anything about the electrical or where it goes or what it does. Brown wire? Where do you run little brown wire? NOWHERE because I cant find you anywhere. I am pretty sure that leads to my short but who knows what it does without a schematic. I mean you are right I could spend the rest of my life in the shop trying to guess what things are. I cant really do anything methodically without knowing what and where things are running and what they do and everything that a schematic would tell me. Considering I am no electrician, I have about as good of a chance of fixing the space shuttle without a schematic.

The battery may be shot. How do I test it? Considering it is less than 2 months old I am really doubting the fact that it is not good but I don't rule that out. Dont gasgas bikes have to use stronger batteries? I know someone said they run better on the CBR1000 batteries that have stronger cranking power or something like that.

And how would I test my starter to see if it is good? Also is the bikes charging system and starter one in the same?

Thanks for the help,

-Adam

hi mate, where abouts are you, and i think i have a schematic for the bike, will look for you


jon

Adam, do you have a schematic for an 05? i asked my local gasgas dealer, he sent me a pdf of the schematic. and said there very little difference between the two years. this is a 05 wireing schematic. pm me your email and ill send it. its too big to post up

I live in Placerville, California. In between Sacramento and Tahoe. Here is a link...

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...=h&z=7&iwloc=A

There is a schematic for an 05 on this thread which may be of help:
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2466

Ok my fault I am assuming you have some basic idea on how things work. For example if your current drain appears to be from a brown wire you can follow that - it's unlikely to change mid harness. Just see what it's connected to, identify the component. Then you need to research what you expect that component to do or drain and check it.

You can easily kill a battery if it is being drained completely or receiving over voltage from a damaged regulator / rectifier. You need to check these numbers but I think a good battery will show over 13V fully charged. A good reg / rec will be about 14.5V. When they fail they can sometimes oscillate sometimes showing 14.5 but then zooming up higher so check several times and keep the meter attached for a while.

I would first check it has some resistance - it'll be very low. Identify manufacturer and see if you can get a spec. Then I would get some big jump leads and connect from a good car battery straight to the started and see if it turns the engine over. BE CAREFUL!!!! You really don't want to hold them on if there's a dead short or long if it doesn't turn for some reason. I really mean be careful the heat generated if you dead short a car battery can weld things!! At best the lead will get hot enough to melt insulation and your hand. Then because you can't disconnect you could even explode the battery - very bad news as it's acid. Just tap the connection to the starter terminal and see what happens building confidence to hold it longer

No

Google is your friend :)

Same problem
 

I have an 04 FSE 450 with the same problem, I've sent the ECU w/ TPS, injector, and the crank position sensor back to Gofasters where they had a running bike to test it on. There conclusion was that the bike started everytime for them with my parts. But, nothing works at home, when you can get it started, it runs for a few seconds then shuts off. Most of the time it won't even fire up, but sometimes after it fires up then dies, there is no power to the system, then I tap on the outside of my computer and on comes the power again, funny huh? Wonder how come this never happened to them for my $250.00 adventure that helped nothing. It seems to me that the ECU has a problem, but what do you do when the dealer says everything worked for them? HMMM! Dang, want this thing to run. I'll be following your problem to see if maybe we can help each other, between all of us out there we will eventually make our own service manual that's not provided. Have to say, probably be the first and last GG for me. Info and parts are hard to come by, hopefully joining this site will help to make my bike run and change my current thoughts about the mighty GG. Anybody in the Washington state area have one of these? I would pay to be able to come over and swap some parts out to help find the problem. Can't just keep throwing money away on guessing. Thanks for all the input guys, very appriciated.

What do you mean tap on the outside of my computer?

I had a lot of problems on mine not joining the ECU connector properly. It's so awkward to get at.

What codes has anyone pulled from the ecu? if the "tap" gets it running again there will be either saved or existing codes in there. If it all runs ok on a known running bike then the only thing left is your bike (most likely connections).