2stroke oil- full,semi or neither
 

Hi guys, I have just got back in the 2 strike game by purchasing a 2012 gas gas 300r and I need to get up too speed with oil. The advantage of full synthetic in my eyes is over ruled by the cost. Can these machines run properly and keep engin ware down on semi or less 2 stroke oil?

The only mod the bike has is a power valve port block, is there any other mods that are easy and cost effective

Also where is the mapping switch supposed to go, mine is on a radiator hoses?
Thanks in advance for the advice

Damo18,
Can't really help with the oil question as I have always used the recommended.. However on my 2012 I moved the mapping switch up onto the handle bars. Was much easier to switch when needed but I did find that occasionally I would switch it accidentally..
Josh

I have found my bike runs better (at least according to my ear) with motul 710. Wear is good. It doesn't answer your questions as it runs worse with motul 800 (and other fully synthetic oils) which is higher quality. I would suggest just using (and jetting accordingly) the oil that is easiest to find near you and stick with it

I have my switch on the handlebars as well, but honestly hardly ever use it so it might as well be on the radiator hose

PV spacer is probably my best mod, especially for hard enduro

If you're in the UK, exol fully synth is dirt cheap. I run it at 32:1, no problems at all!

Every study ever conducted has shown that more oil is better than less, but more expensive oil. Only problem is your jetting will have to be spot on!

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thanks guys.

With the mapping switch, is there enough cabling to move to the handle bars with out added to the length of cable?

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Can I ask is there anyone out there who does use a semi-synethetic 2T oil and is liking it?

thanks

Who cares how the oil is made, as long it meets the recommend specs from Gasgas.
I use only Motul 800, but I run it in my 125 and 144. In a 250 or 300 I would use a oil with a lower flame point like the Motul 710.
I run my motors with 1:50 to 1:60


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You have raised an interesting point. When using a good quality synthetic oil you have piece of mind that you can go a bit lean at times (hopefully) without dire consequences
With a low spec oil you will prob want to make sure your jetting is correct

More so the fact that a rich bike with more oil will let you know the jetting is off by loading up etc.

When you compare the specs from all the big manufacturers, they recommend 1:32 on mineral oil and 1:50 or 1:60 ob fully synthetic oil.
I honestly never spend a thought on using mineral oil instead of the fully synthetic racing oil motul 800.


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It takes more mineral oil in your fuel mix to give the same protection as synthetic so you don't necessarily save money by using a non-synthetic. My personal guide for mixing fuel is at 36/1 for mineral oil(Yammalube), 43/1 for semi-synthetic(Klotz), and 60/1 for full synthetic(Amsoil Dominator or Intercepter). In the 300 gasser the oils flashpoint is very important if you like to lug the bike or ride tight technical terrain. Chose an oil with a flashpoint below 100 degrees centigrade (210 fahrenheit). You can research a specific oil online to find it's flashpoint under technical details. A high flashpoint oil like Motul 800 will load up your engine and exhaust and cause it to run crappy at best or foul plugs at worst.

And this is why I prefer the 710 (just didn’t know it)

No it doesn't ;)

Quantity of oil is as important as quality. Remember that it serves to provide a barrier between the piston and bore, by way of oil film, the only way that is achievable is by having a decent quantity of oil, the quality determines how quickly it breaks down and how clean it burns.

What is on the cylinder will be scraped off by the rings on the next stroke. Oil does not magically seep into the nikasil and pop back out when the rings have passed it.

Once again, many dyno runs have proven more oil is better, it reduces friction and promotes better ring sealing.

If your bike starts smoking like a pig at 32:1, then you need to look at your jetting. Fact.

I have no loading up issues in the woods and my bike gets its neck wrung at the Motocross track. Barely any ring wear after 2 years riding between 5-10 hours a week. And bugger all smoke when warm.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...b5KjB_0KMsmzjh

Old but still relevant.

And another

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/archive...p/t-53212.html

And another

http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm


Just because you run expensive oil in your car doesn't mean you expect it to run on 1 litre...

I bet if you were to come ride with me in the hills of Tennessee we could get your bike to smoke like a pig too if you run Motul 800 in a 300 2stroke no matter how well it's jetted. We have very rocky, technical hill climbs that will load up a bike thats burning a high flashpoint oil. Tennessee and much of the rest of the world has much steeper and rockier terrain than England (I lived there for 2 years). There is a multitude of good options for 2stroke oils and all seem to do a good job of protecting the motor if used properly which means enough oil for a given operating temperature. The required amount of oil can vary dramatically and is determined by the makeup of the oil - that's why oil companies put a maximum mix ratio on their oils. Just because the KTM or GasGas factory use a full synthetic at 60/1 or 50/1 ratio doesn't mean we can safely do the same with a mineral oil. I have years of experience running a semi-synthetic at 43/1 ratio (Klotz and Champion Water pumper), full synthetic at 50-60/1 (Amsoil Dominator and Intercepter, Motul 710), and even full synthetics designed for 100/1 ratio (Amsoil Saber which I ran at 80/1 in my 300 and 75/1 in my 250). I can't tell any difference in power or how well the engine wears.

Damn, may as well burn all my engineering qualifications and 2 stroke tuning books. An American has spoken...

That is not necessary or helpful. Do you have a counter technical view or opinion?

2cents worth-I guess im old school but when people speak of 1:60 up to 1:100 oil ratios i think "hand grenade"
Id rather live with a little spooge (assuming jetting is close,it means some oil is unburnt upon leaving the engine...not that there is too much oil in the mix).
If there is no spooge at all then 100% of oil has combusted.Ash is a poor lubricant...
40:1 full synth a little spooge,no worrys
Very high flashpoint synth such as belray h1r are best for wot/mx applications,they will spooge more even if your jetting is perfect if you ride tight and technical.
Some lower flashpoint oils will also leave more residue on the plug (my own observation only)
I like castrol power1 tts @40:1 for "a bit of everything" riding.
Disclaimer,i dont have an engineering degree,but i read/research a lot,and have a decent amount of exp from chainsaws to tractors.LOL a kiwi has spoken!

2stroke oil
 

I have run klotz r50 40:1 great. little spooge no big deal great film on internals when doing top ends

I run Klotz SuperTechniplate 40:1 in my EC300 2001.

Already stated it. More oil = less wear and better lubrication, and with correct jetting, spooge isn't a problem.

Something to keep in mind whatever oil you run:

The more oil you put in your fuel, the leaner your mixture actually is (less fuel=leaner). When changing the ratio of oil to fuel, it is necessary to take this into account and adjust jetting accordingly.

I have very good luck running the same oil at exactly the same ratio.

We started running Klotz R50 about 10 yrs ago in our eight older GG bikes. We typically run between 40:1 and 50:1. About 5 yrs ago we also started using Klotz Motorcycle Techniplate to reduce the spooge and smoke of the R50 for slow trail or single track riding. We switch back and forth between the Motorcycle Techniplate and or R50 depending on where and how we are riding. If we ride hard and fast we use R50 and slow trail riding or single track we use the Motorcycle Techniplate because it has a lower flash point and spooges much less. .

R50 provides excellent wear protection (and smells fantastic) but it spooges much more than the Motorcycle Techniplate on the same bike, same jetting and same conditions especially when you are riding slow. It also seems that bikes with larger squish tend to spooge more too.

I asked two separate Klotz staff members about blending R50 and Motorycycle Techniplate to find some middle ground between the two oils and I was told it was ok to blend the two oils in the fuel. We have not had a problem to date switching between and or blending the two oils.

Note -The Motorcycle Techniplate and R50 are different from the Super Techniplate that has 20% Be.NOL racing castor.

If you get spooge, your jetting is rich somewhere...

I take no offense whatsoever to our fellow rider across the pond. In fact I extend an invitation to him to come to America, stay in my home, and ride with me for 3 or 4 days. I'll provide a bike and if he wants he can bring a carb and oil with him and set it up anyway he desires. This is a very sincere offer he can call me direct at 931-854-8037 if he wants to take me up on it.

I am not an engineer but I have owned and ridden 2 strokes for 50 years and offer my thoughts on oil flashpoints only to help others avoid some problems I've dealt with over time.

I'm not from England, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so see you about 10? :D

It also depends on the oil. I work hard to jet these bike correctly but as they are carbureted and they are run at a variety of loads, temperatures humidities and altitudes, I am sure they are slightly rich at some times and lean in others. Oils with higher flash point temperatures require a higher temperature to burn and tend to spooge more when you are not riding hard. When we run the Techniplate with the lower flash point the spooge is minimal to nonexistent. Under the same light riding conditions with the R50 we get spooge.

Let the aussie speak!!

I agree with what he said..

In a perfect world you'd have just enough oil to leave an optimum quantity on the cylinder walls to lubricate, have enough circulating the bottom end to keep the mains and big end happy, and just enough that what leaves through the exhaust port is burnt off before it gets to the silencer.

Unfortunately the world isn't perfect and as above there are a metric shitload of variables (technical quantity) acting on the process as a whole. A carb can only do so much..

Too much oil won't hurt anything (within reason).. too little can (and has/will) given other variables aligning. But... not all oils are the same, not all riders treat the bikes the same, not all jetting is the same, and so it goes. If what you use suits your application then so be it! Why waste money on more oil just because? Probably also depends on where you live and the cost of oil..

Here in Australia it's close to $30/L for a quality synthetic... Why would you use more than you need?

Where as in the UK...

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F350586223232

It's the same company we use at work to keep the 2000t extrusion press running. And at ?5 a litre I'm happy to chuck extra in ;).

I'll admit an old fart can happily plod along at even 100:1 if he's only bumbling about. But mine gets thrashed every time I ride it, and thats racing enduro and practising motocross. I get the tiniest bit of loading when the going gets gets real slow in the woods, but after 3 seconds clearing it out its spot on again. I'd never sacrifice durability for cost.

And while you are at it pick up some books on psychology to figure out why you are so insecure about your nationality since it wasn't even brought up in his post. Topography does not equal Nationality. An engineer with all your qualifications should be able to figure that out.

Any idea if the guys designing those oils and coming up with recommended ratios have engineering degrees too? Maybe if they were just in it to sell product they would recommend we all run 20:1.