Small changes I would like to see.
 

Hey Clay I know its early on and you cant make everyone happy but thought I would mention a couple simple things that shouldn't add any cost to the msrp that I would like to see changed on the US standard model E start bikes.

Please can the factory lose the key switch for a button like a Yamaha WR. Location of key switch also makes Mx number plate mounting impossible without relocation.Ya its kind of cool to be able to take the key out for added security but its also kind of a worry.

Also change the gigantic dual sport handlebar switch set up for the E start and kill switch for a smaller design, or just have 2 separate buttons, a kill switch and a start button like most enduro models. When you cut the bars down things get tight in a hurry if your running enduro equipment with that behemoth.
The brake light sensor plug ins can also go. funny there even there as they aren't plugged in to anything and they don't include a tail light. If the bikes become road legal in the future or are easily made so, then I can understand including.

Black rims suck on an offroad bike they look good on the show room but it ain't long and they look like hell.

Oh and a question, is there a MX # plate meant for the 2011 bikes? I swap back and forth between a headlight and MX plate so I need to rig something. Thinking of using the older DE MC plates from past years if there is nothing specific or even from a different brand that fits like it was made for the bike.

I think its a huge 1 up over KTM that these bikes come with the headlight and spark arrestor. Please express that we want to keep them as standard equipment!

Roscoe

Biggest single change I would like to see is a 3 gallon gas tank. I don't like carrying oil for an all day ride. The KTM guys I ride with do fine with their 2.9 gallon tanks but I always had to add fuel at the lunch stop to keep from running out. I now run the clarke 3.2 tank and don't hit reserve on the longer rides so 2.8 - 3.0 gallons would be large enough.

Roscoe,
I agree on the key. It's on my list.
I'm getting mixed reaction to the "big switc". Racers hate it. Dual sport guys like it. Same with the brake light sensors.
I understand the black rim comment but have you looked at the 2011 KTM with silver rims? It looks really dull to me.
The Euros don't get the number plate thing. it's on my list for next year.
I totally agree on the headlight and SA.
Thanks for the comments!
Clay

I hear you brother!
How's the grandbaby?
Clay

Yep I've seen em. But I'm the wrong guy to ask. I think everything on a KTM looks really dull. :rolleyes:

I'm older so my ideas may not be what today's generation wants. Cause I certainly have noticed all the rage to the younger generation these days is black rims on cars n trucks and Bikes.
Roscoe

The brake light sensor plug ins can also go.

not sure what you are talking about here but ...I need a rear brake light to make my bikes street legal. Usually you have to add an aftermarket hydraulic switch to the rear brake. If the gasser already comes with one in place ... so its a simple plug and play ...... thats a selling point for anyone riding enduros or turkey runs.

Black rims
 

I agree w/ Reverup on the black rims. I'll take function over fashion any day. One aspect worth noting is that black rims seem to "hide" small dings and dents. I'd rather be able to just glance at the rim & see if there are any irregularities. I would really like to see the mudless rims again. My '02 xc300 had those. Just a few random thoughts.

Hey skid I understand everyone has their needs, and don't want to screw the majority out of usable equipment if the majority need it. Thats why the title says somethings I'd like to see, and that you cant please everyone.
If you can get a plate for one of these you are one of the lucky ones. We don't need plates for enduros over here on the left coast and frankly they probably won't street legal these bikes here again ever. The only way will be if Gas Gas are EPA and DOT approved street legal. They have been revoking previously qualified plates here for some time now.

Not sure how plug and play this is, the front brake light sensor isn't connected to any plug it was just dangling behind the headlight. My 2004 on the other hand was a true Ec and came with the brake light, blinkers, horn, and parking light all in working order.

Roscoe

In addition to that said:

Redesign the brake pedal pivot for strength and longevity (I have). The 8mm bolt and short shoulder sleeve do not hold up to NJ stick farms.

Add mounting points to the frame for skid plate and rad guards/braces (rear mount). I realize this would be a first, but it would make the aftermarkets job easier as well as routine service. I know the real Nambo 275 factory bike Boomer had was setup like this, very nice.

Stronger rims that hold up to rocks better, at least on the Race models, and rim locks that you don't have to toss.

Perhaps gear the bikes a bit lower for the US, at least the 250s and 200s.

Like was said in the other thread, suspension specs that are closer for the target US rider. Back in the old days the bikes beat KTMs by a mile in this respect. While most serious guys like us revalve anyway, the entry level guy may not have the coin and it would be a big selling point.

Basically anything you can do to bring the bike as close as possible to "race ready" out of the crate, while still being cost effective at the factory.

It is funny you bring up my old bike Glenn.

The upper shock bolt had the nut welded to the frame and many other fasteners. This made quick work of removing the shock and yes the skid plate mounts were also welded to the frame from the factory. I ended up cutting mine off since I went to the hyde combe prior to the re-powder coating.

This might be something Clay could to talk to the factory about. The downside would be that everyone would have to run the same skid plate.

Ya for sure Glenn. thats one of my worries with the black rims. when I bend one which I know I will. I probably don't really want to heat it up and bend it back. probably be creating another kind of damage to the rim.

Yep after owning 3 Gas Gas bikes now on the 4th Ive learned its a given when your ordering your extras, Skid plate, rad guards, disk guard etc. make sure you add rim locks to the list.

By the way I got the motion pro liteloc ones. First try, will see how they hold up, I hope they don't suck, havent seen anyones take on them yet.
http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/...loc_rim_locks/

I want to jump on two comments listed here. I HATE needing two tools to remove the subframe, et al. captive nuts, welded on, something. This is really inexcusable. I deal with it because the bike rides so well.

Black rims....... Beautiful on the showroom. SUCK in reality. Do a few ISDE tire changes and tell me how your black rims look. Silver rims with some rim tape should satisfy the inner 16 year old well enough.

Amen, to that brother !!!
First on the list should be to clean-up the bikes "period"
The current fit and finish should be highly scrutinized and brought up to (dare I say) Japanese standards.
The first thing I didn't like when I uncrated my bike back in 09 was how the shrouds were attached to the gas tank...by using sheet metal screws...ala chinese...it looks more like a temporary mc'gyver fix then a planed factory attachment.
And I can find lots of the same type of stuff if I look long enough.
Think how awesome the GG would be if the fit and finish were equal to a Honda, or Yamaha.
The performance is already there...work on the small details.

How about a 19" rear wheel option?

That's is the best thing you can say about it...:D

The rim locks have to go. They just suck lemons.
Bring back the U-rims in silver. One hard ride and the black is gone on the edges. And it just goes down hill from there. Excel's are highly over rated!
Clean up the 2 tool fasteners and the rear brake pedal mount.
The bikes should be able to be maintained with 2 or 3 T handles and a phillips screw driver. Makes for easy trail side repairs.
There is no reason that these bikes should not come with a fartory mounted heavy duty skid plate with real mounts built into the frame.


Trust me, the list would be a lot longer on the Yamaha that I bought for MX. It looks nice, but thats about it.

I like the brake light pressure switches. My jerry-rigged lighting always fails eventually. The front switch does plug into the wire harness and it works. I just got the OEM sub-fender and taillight installed this week. Sweet! We have to run a plate in most Midwestern enduros.

The black rims do get ugly after a while but there's an easy fix. Get out your Sharpie or black paint pen. They may not look perfect but they look good in pictures for eBay!

Having been a Honda guy for a few decades, I can tell you the 2011s are up to the current Japanese standards. Maybe the older models weren't.

In many ways the GG have surpassed the Japanese. Have you looked at a Kawasaki up close? At least the Spaniards put grease where it's supposed to be!

The skid plate mount tabs might be a little late to the party being that so many plates are designed and available already, but should be considered in any future frame design change. What would be good is a hard pipe cage/guard system, like the Whipps (no GG part available) as part of the hard parts collection, and coresponding frame mount(s). Nothing too complicated, just a threaded sleeve welded in the lower downtube. Could also be used to mount a mudguard.

Triangulating the mounts for rad guards/braces add a lot of strength, and it would be easy at the factory, not so for the bolt on aftermarket.

Look into molding the airboot from a softer compound rubber. This will ease carb work and also make boot/carb alignment and subframe reassenmbly easier.

Oh, and how about a longer throttle cable standard.


Moto9,

The fit and finnish is apparantly a notch up on the '10 and '11 bikes including the shroud mounts. My '07 is pretty good compared to my '00 and '03. Although somewhat of a corner cutting measure, I never really had an issue with the shroud mounts. I remove the shrouds and tank as a unit for service, so I don't wear out the holes.

I love black rims, dont change that. I prefer the DID U rims. The bolt/nut arraningement needs to be worked on. Skid plate mounts welded to the frame. Bike need to go on a diet, its a lot heavier than it should be although you dont feel it much while riding. Stiffer suspension srings.

Nate

I have been using those rim locks on my Nambo and they are good!

I like that the brake light sensors are there. It's a pain to get the air out of them so I'm happy mine came with them. Actually, I'm really happy that the bike came so close to street legal trim. Saves me a lot of work and definitely a huge advantage over a KTM. The high/low beam switch is funky, it should be a push button type of thing. It also looks like it will get crushed if you flip the bike. I like the key.

As for fit and finish my new 11 looks really good sitting next to my Honda CR250.

I would be happy to have a couple more tenths of a gallon fuel capacity.

This bike is a close as you can get to what I would build if I could design one myself. The only thing I'd like to add if the sky was the limit would be a counterbalancer.

Guys,
Do me a favor, please, and start from the beginning of this thread. Read it all again and pretend you are me. Some like black rims, some hate black rims. Some want the factory to include a skid plate, some want to supply their own. Some want brake light switches, some want them eliminated.
Some guys weigh a buck 40 and some 240. Yall are going to make me go get a 6 pack early today! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only thing that bugs me in these comments is when you assume I don't know the basics. Last year I raced 22 weekends. This year about 15 weekends. In 2011 I plan to race about 20 times again. My son raced almost every one of these races too so I maintain two bikes. The things that bother you guys, like needing every tool in your tool box to work on the bike, bother me, too. I'm not like my previous bosses at Kawasaki. I often said (usually after being at the bar for an hour or two at a sales meeting) that if Kawasaki sales management had to start a KX250 and ride it around the building to keep their jobs, they might as well go ahead and type up their resignation. None of them rode!
I appreciate all of the comments. I have made a ton of notes from the things you guys have posted. Keep the comments coming but try to remember two things:
1. We can't make everybody happy.
2. We know that working on the bikes should be easier.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Clay

I can see complaining about something that's NOT there but why anyone would want to eliminate something is beyond me. I'll take whatever I can get.

A little bit off of the main subject....

Guys go check out the Talon rim locks that motosport.com sells. They are awesome! I gave gasgasman my last set that I had when I sold my gasser.

Clay you are doing an awesome job! I can only imagine what you are going through on a daily basis setting this whole deal up. It is nice to know that you want to hear about our likes and dislikes about the brand so you can improve it to the best of your ability. You are to be commended for doing such a great job.

I gain nothing from this as I am on a different brand but you are representing the Gassers the best that I have ever seen in my past 5 years of owning them.

Go ahead and have that 6 pack early! Boomer thinks you have earned and deserve it!:D:D

Robby

Thats good news thanks for the heads up Clay.

Wow I didn't really realize the bees nest I was about to uleash here. But hey it's the holidays some drinking is all par for the course right.

heres what i kinda figure. i think that if we ask for things to be added to the bike itself, that will only drive the price up and some people may not even want it. some want a skidplate. i wouldnt. i can buy a skid plate and put it on and it will probably be cheaper for the company and for me. i think that in general, a bike should come with the basics and with the capability to easily add on the things that you want. imo, we shouldnt ask for things to be put on the bike from the factory, we should ask for a bigger parts selection. the easiest way for you to get what you want is to do it yourself.

Clay,

The observation about the Kawasaki guys who never rode is very astute. You are on the right track.

Management who can't put themselves in the shoes of the customer will kill the company. That is what happened at GM. As soon as a manager rose to a certain level, they were given cars, their car was taken care of, and they lost sight of what it meant to be a customer. They didn't understand the sales experience, the repair experience, and the poor reliability experience. They were isolated from the customer experience, and soon lost touch.

You maintain 2 motorcycles (yours and your son's). I maintain three (my daughters' two punkins and my GG). The KTMs are much quicker to maintain; i can do the maintenance on my kids' two KTMs in the time it takes me to do my GG. It's two week nights per week to make sure we're ready for the next weekend. I'd love to do it in one evening.

The difference is what "works" and what "works great."

As an example, my footpeg brackets broke on my 2002 EC 300 a couple of years ago. In all my years of motorcycling, I have never seen footpeg brackets break. I posted on this site, and learned that "they all do that."

Huh?

If I were responsible at the factory for that aspect of the motorcycle, I sure as heck would fix that as soon as I learned that there was an issue. Redesign it. GG volumes aren't so large that they can't afford to implement a fix. Luckily, I have a welder, and was able to fix it myself when i returned home. But, the failed footpeg ruined my weekend.

The point behind all of this is that the guys on this forum ride, and they are experienced in the "experience." As you said, you'll never get universal agreement on black vs. silver rims, spring rates, etc., but you will have agreement on fundamental design and performance issues. For instance, consider the need to not use every tool in the box to pull the subframe. This has been discussed here for as long as i've been here (at least 5 years). How it was never really addressed is confusing to me. It's the difference between "works" and "works great."

The devil is really in the details. The incremental cost to move from "works" to "works great" is generally small, but the dividend it pays is huge.

Thanks for you involvement and ear. You can't find a more experienced knowledge base than what you'll find here. I learn stuff here everyday.

blitz

None of my comments are meant to be complaints they are my opinions and I feel very grateful to be able to express them to others willing to listen, and enjoy hearing what others think. I try to keep an open mind, as we all have different needs. Its great we now have a guy in Clay who is a racer and is on the inside looking out, not only us looking in.
my reasoning is simple. I race my bike in pretty much every format of offroad. So I don't always run a headlight nor do I ever run a tail light. I now have to remove the stuff. Bleed the brakes, cut wires add new switches, by plugs for brake pressure switches that are removed, relocate new switches. its not a dual sport for me its a race bike.

Here is your comment.... I like that the brake light sensors are there. It's a pain to get the air out of them so I'm happy mine came with them. Actually, I'm really happy that the bike came so close to street legal trim. Saves me a lot of work and definitely a huge advantage over a KTM.

You see for you it saves you work, for me it adds.

One of the negative comments folks often make is the weight of Gas Gas bikes, well all these extras add up. Its hard to offer it all.

Different strokes for different folks.:)

Roscoe

Everything I mentioned would be of low mfg cost and a good value to most riders. If you were an aftermarket parts engineer you would be thrilled to have some simple mounting points available so you don't have to design your own, and ultimately create a better product. Buy a new pickup truck lately? When was the last time you had to drill the frame to mount a trailer hitch? Get my point? Like I said though a bit late now anyway but food for thought.

Whatever can be done to one up KTM in value out of the crate is a good thing. The performance already does thats not a problem.

Another one: How about a US only non-auto retract sidestand bracket?


There is really very little to seriously complain about, most of these things are just loose ends.

Clay,

I'm just approaching this thread like a technical meeting at work, throw out ideas and see what sticks, so don't sweat it. :)

KX frames broke in this location all the time...

The gasgas frame was beefed up in '02 for the MC and the EC got the change in '03. Beefed up footpeg mounts and also the linkage mount on the frame.

I know it's not of much solace to you with your '02 - but the footpeg mounts are now much stronger than they were in '02.

That's one thing about GasGas - as they see problems, they do make incremental improvements from year to year to resolve them.

jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for the feedback. As an engineer, what bothers me most is delay in fixing a problem. That KX story is a perfect example. If you're going to base/license something as your own, you should address the flaws early in the process. The fix in 2003 meant the problem existed for at least 5 years before it was addressed.

This isn't to rag on GG. Great bikes. I'll be in the tribe a long time. But, to be competitive, you have to be better. Clay is the conduit to better, and his attention to these things says a great deal about the future of GG. I'm really impressed.

blitz

You really have to own a newer bike, at least an '07, and you will see the improvements compared to the '02.

300 xc
 

The only thing I feel the bike should come standard with is a odo/speedo- I see the Euro models come with them. I looked at a 2011 300 xc a few wks ago and thought the bike was very well thought out....

I would like to see an externally adjustavle powervalve like the KTM's. I have changed the preload on my 05 300 and it can really change the power delivery. Probably doesn't qualify as a simple change.

Standardize around common wrench sizes. It amazes me the amount of different tools it takes to work on my 05.

Thanks, Robby! I appreciate it. I have confidence that we'll get you back on a Gas Gas. I went and got the 6pack early!
Clay

Dank,
Excellent point! Thank you!
Clay

Glen,
Got it! :)
Thanks!
Clay

Muddy,
This odo/speedo thing is driving you crazy, isn't it? :) I have a box of KTM odo's in my shop because I always took them off when I set my KTM up. I used an ICO when I needed an odo/computer in a race and took them off to keep from breaking them when I didn't need one. If you will go buy a bike from Scott, I will send you one off of a KTM! :)
Clay

It seems that it would be impossible to please all. Even down to having the E start added. I agree with Dank. Bring in the stripped down models only. (aside from maybe suspension ) and work on a better hard parts Catalog. For the ones that don't like to wrench on the own bikes (I like that almost as much as riding) the trick parts that a potential customer would like could be added at the dealers. To have all this added at the factory would really slow down assemble. Which would only raise the initial cost up each bike.