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Fuel injected KTM's...?

So I'm eager to hear some feedback on the fuel injected KTM 2 strokes.

Anyone have any news? Are they good straight out of the box? Are they having any teething problems?

I'm hoping to hear positive feedback as I'm excited about this new technology.

Thanks, Dave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davehuge (Post 181167)

Can't say I've ridden one so I'll speculate on what little I do know.

I've heard they are smooth smooth motors. The pro's I've spoken with aren't seeing much of an advantage compared to the carb bikes. But one well known KTM/RedBull rider did clarify that they are used to riding perfectly setup carb'd bikes. Whereas us plebeians who don't have a clue how to jet and set up a motor will probably see much bigger gains since it takes all the guesswork out of it for us and just adjusts for our stupidity.

Again I haven't ridden one so this is speculation, but my beef with them is that I can fix most carb problems with a rock and stick out in the field. FI system field repairs?? Fahgetaboutit!!

If the quality of this TPI system is anything like the FI KTM LC4 690 that I do own I'll gladly pass and stick with a carb. That bike has so many fuelling issues I'm honestly and actually shocked if I can ride for a day and not have a problem. The FI system on that sorry excuse of a machine is the #1 reason its up for sale right now. Terrible, horrible experience of a bike for me. Completely lost my faith in KTM after buying that bike.

In my summary, I'd hold off for now. KTM has a bit of a growing reputation of releasing innovations before they clear up all the problems.. Especially as a first year bike I'd stay away. Maybe in three or four years once we know if KTM actually managed to get this right. But even then. I'll stick with my Gasser's. In every way they have been a stellar experience for me. And that will keep me coming back every time I need a new bike. :)

I had a quick go on a 250 tpi a few weeks back. Felt instantly at home on it on a sticky rutted green lane. Very light, as in light as a 125 would have been ten years ago. I don't think the owner had even touched the suspension clickers and it was very confidence inspiring to ride (I normally need +1 heavier rear spring). With a counter balancer and fi, the motor was very smooth, although I don't think the fi is perfect. Also deceptively powerful, I couldn't keep up on my fairly well set up 300 on a flat out blast.

Superb bike, probably the best option out there for someone who races a lot, especially if they enjoy tougher enduros. However, not for me, just doesn't float my boat. I'm fighting the temptation go and pick up one of the ex demo 2018 gassers that are around at the moment :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caravan Monster (Post 181172)

I'm fighting the temptation go and pick up one of the ex demo 2018 gassers that are around at the moment :D

Stop fighting it... Just succumb to the pull. Breath in the dark... Enjoy it! :D:D

I am very interested in how they perform for the average rider who isn’t good at jetting a carb. I like the fact that you can ride in +30C temps and -10C temps without worrying about damaging the motor. DirtBikeChannel on YouTube has videos of both the ktm and husky FI bikes. He owns the ktm and has the husky as a loaner for the next couple weeks or months.
I’m going to buy a Lectron this winter so that I don’t have to mess with my jetting. I don’t have time to mess with my jetting. I just want to ride and enjoy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry to redirect you to another site but I did a report here on the one I have been riding (TE250i not KTM). I freaking love the bike. The motor is stock except a FMF Gnarly and muffler. It runs fantastic I think it is step forward (other than the complexity)

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/fir...1/#post-635928

https://i.imgur.com/6h4TYfG.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caravan Monster (Post 181172)

I'm fighting the temptation go and pick up one of the ex demo 2018 gassers that are around at the moment :D

I spent three weeks on a 2018 Demo GG300 and it is a fantastic bike as well. Did a quick report on this site.

You rave about the House of Hp suspension, have you tried the Krefeld stuff? I have a friend who wants to get his 17 done and wants input on who to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEB (Post 181184)

You rave about the House of Hp suspension, have you tried the Krefeld stuff? I have a friend who wants to get his 17 done and wants input on who to do it.

I have not tried their stuff. Are you talking about Kreft? http://www.kreftmoto.com I have heard good things. I've also heard they are quite expensive. Is your friend from Canada?

Yes I meant Kreft, silly autocorrect. No he is stateside, but you should join us sometime to visit my Canadian buddy that also has a 17!

Got some good miles on the bike now and really liking it. The suspension continues to be VERY impressive, I'm fast on this bike and I love the EFI motor. Zero issues so far. Magura brakes have more modulation than the brembo's. Hi-point tubless tires have been good. All happy here.

What do you mean by high point tubeless tyres mate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasser Nate (Post 181512)

What do you mean by high point tubeless tyres mate?

These tires have the tubes built into the tire. Its kinda hard to explain and Hi Point really does not do a good job of showing you how they work. Basically the tube is part of the tire and the idea is no or really hard to pinch flat and lighter weight. They work very well in out NW slick technical terrain and I feel good about running them lower pressures for the slower technical stuff.

Hmmm cheers, never heard of them - interested.

https://dirtbikemagazine.com/hi-poin...ss-front-tire/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattnzl (Post 181528)

Hmmm cheers, never heard of them - interested.

https://dirtbikemagazine.com/hi-poin...ss-front-tire/

Yes those, good info there. Thanks. I'm liking them.

I attended the Phoenix KTM Demo Daze last month (day after the Phoenix Super Cross).

Here is a portion of the review that I wrote on my club forum. I am also making an unfortunately long video of the six bikes I test-rode.

Quote:

Bikes ridden, in order: 250XCF, 300XC-W, 250 XC-W (TPI EFI 2-stroke), 150XC-W, 350XCF, My 2011 Gas Gas EC250R, and lastly, the 250XC.

The test course was on the far-west side of ACP and consisted of a short "desert" section which included about 100 yards of six-inch rutted bumpies to test the initial compliance of the Air Forks of the XC/XCF line and the XPlor of the XC-W line (I did not ride or even see any EXC models being tested -- and I didn't look, since I am not interested in them. I also didn't ride any SX models). After that somewhat rough section we could test the power of the motor through the two deep sand wash *crossings* and some twisty desert sections that began to get silty after an hour. We were told to do the desert loop once and then do three laps on the "MX" course which was very short -- four or five turns. No big jumps other than a half-dozen rolling bumps, and one tiny table top. I didn't time it, but the whole thing 1+3 loop was completed in about 6-minutes, give or take.

A little background. I am going at this in pursuit of a mid-bore 4-stroke for non-crappy trails, racing, and a smidgeon of dual sport. While I rode the 2-strokes, I did so because I wanted to test the XPlor suspension of the XCW line. I also wanted to compare it to my 2011 Gas Gas EC250R.

In short order, what I (re)-discovered was that I feel more at home on a 2-stroke, to a point. Generally speaking, I was able to move them around better and I enjoyed the power delivery in both the XC and the XCW 2-strokes.

To a point. And that point might have been moved, due to my still-healing ribs and my back which is a big mess right now. I didn't throw the bikes around as much as I would have liked.

I know you're wondering about KTM's 2-stroke counter-balancer. Yes, it works. I felt no vibrations through the foot pegs and just a slight tickle on the grips. My Gas Gas doesn't vibrate much, and this iteration of KTM vibrated even less.

The 2-strokes that I felt most comfortable with were the XC-Ws. The XPlor fork and shock soaked up cross-ruts and other bumps like they were floating over them. The power of the XCW 2-strokes were also more to my liking. Yet, although, back a couple of years ago, I loved my demo ride on the 150 XCW, I didn't like it as much this time. And it had mostly to do with the tires. They felt weird in the turns. They were slipping in the silt-ruts and that was tweaking my back with every-other turn. The other bikes had more power and it was easier to get the front-end light. The other KTMs had no issue there.

I also rode the 250XC-W TPI (EFI 2-stroke). That was a fun bike. The power was very linear. No hit. No bog. No burble. It was so linear that I had that typical smooth-power feeling that I wasn't going very fast. And the XPlor suspension was golden for me. I don't think I would be very quick to revalve them. Something about how I ride the XC-W made it feel very good when turning. Maybe the way the XPlor suspension settles in a turn.

The KTM carbed two-strokes (carbed 250XC, 250XCW and 300XCW) where different animals. I rode the 300XC as the second test-ride (right after the 250XCF). The 300XC was a potent rocket. Controllable torque off-bottom that ate up the short sand wash entrances and exits. It didn't come with a map switch, but if I bought a 300XCW or 300XC, I would install a map switch. If I were fresh, I could make use of the power. But just as with my GG 250, I use the rain-map when I start to fatigue. And I think the 300 would take me there... faster.

The Mikuni carbs of both the 2-strokes were jetted to perfection. Great off-idle behavior. Pretty-dang linear all the way on top. I was lifting the front tire off the ground when accelerating around corners. The suspension of the XC AER air forks were firm, yet compliant. Perfect for a mix of MX track and single-track. If I were to buy it, for my mid-pack C speed, I would need them re-valved softer.

The performance of the FI XC-W 2-stroke vs the carbed XC 2-strokes got me curious, so I went straight over to my Gasser to do some A/B comparisons for power, suspension, and handling. The XC 2Ts were rippers. My Gasser would be left behind on a drag race, but I have altered my GG to focus on the lower end of the revs. The 38mm Keihin carb was replaced with a 36mm Lectron. The head was modded for the same purpose. And as it is an "EC250" and not an "XC250" it comes stock with an 18-ounce flywheel weight. I don't know if the ECU is different between the 2011 EC and the XC. It is different for 2018. The seat-of-the-pants measure had the XCs well ahead of both the KTM 250 XCW fuel-injected TPI 2-stroke and my Gasser. And I would put the GG and the TPI about the same. As I expected, the Gasser has more bottom and less top than both the 250 2-strokes. The KTM300XC is in a class by itself.

All of the 2-strokes turned better than the 4-strokes. Even the 300XCW turned better than the 250XCF. I thought the 250XCF might be able to edge it out, but it didn't.

The transmission ratios, shifter, and brakes all felt good. All of the KTMs felt very refined. My Gasser felt a little long in the tooth -- but still functional as a rock bike, should I get a pricey 4-stroke some day.

I had to skip this weekend's race (cold/flu/bronchitis), so I made this too-long video of the KTM Demo Day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twIK_T-gw18

So what's the latest on the Fuel Injected KTM 2 strokes?

After hearing all the bad press about oil pumps failing, damaged pistons and bores, etc... I'm interested to know if they've resolved the teething problems?

All the best, Dave.

P.S. I was just looking at the photo in the last post...

What's going on with this guy's foot, is it some kind of body modification to help his gear changes on a KTM??? :rolleyes:

Attachment 8237

If I remember correctly, “Dirtbikechannel” on YouTube is trying to put 100hours on his TPI this year. Should be interesting to see the results.

I am always a little skeptical when reading reviews on any bike that is a big change from the norm. Some people want to get lots of views on their YouTube channel so they just exaggerate the truth.

I think that the TPI might get a lot of extra attention if they blow a motor pre-maturely. People might post bad reviews because they are upset, but I also wonder if that same person would have blown up a brand new carbureted bike just as easily. I know some people that are hard on bikes and not very good at spotting the signs of trouble until it’s too late...

I’ve heard lots of people say that two strokes should be kept simple for maintenance and reliability on the trail. That is understandable, but I also never hear anybody say that they wish that they could buy a four stroke motocrosser with a carburetor. Even more, I don’t know anybody that wishes that their car had a carburetor anymore...

Let’s remember that the main reason for fuel injected two strokes is emissions. Not performance, let’s keep the two stroke alive... let’s keep the environmentalists as happy as we can.

As far as his foot goes... looks like the picture was probably taken with a 360 degree camera and his foot landed in the stitch line of the two fish eye camera lenses. His arms and the left door of the sprinter van are funky also...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Davehuge (Post 189965)

that's a common mod for trail riding a trials bike ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvangeel (Post 189973)

If I remember correctly, ?Dirtbikechannel? on YouTube is trying to put 100hours on his TPI this year. Should be interesting to see the results.

Hi Angeel, yes it'll be interesting to see the results of the 100 hours, although it would mean more to see how the TPI's are doing when you look at a few thousand bikes.

I really want the fuel injected 2 stroke bikes to succeed. I love 2 strokes and I guess this will be one way to ensure they stay around longer! :)