GasGas 50SM Q:
 

I know the GasGas EC50SM is kind of a rare bird here in the USA. I am
hopping someone might have the answer to my question.
I am trying to find out who makes the motor for the GasGas 50cc bikes.
Is it GasGas? Or Minerelli, Piaggio, Polini. I know it is not the same motor
that I have in my Derbi Senda 50SM.
A friend of mine has the bike and we have been unable to find a "Big Bore"
kit for it. I know GasGas makes cylinders and pistons for their 65cc MX
and 80cc trials bikes. And I think they used to make a 70cc trials cylinder too.
I would assume the trials cylinder port timming would not be "sporty" enough
for a street SuperMoto like the EC50SM. Am I wrong? Is the high RPM
performance gained from the pipe used, or the port timming. If so. Would the
top end from the TXT80 fit the bottom of the SM50 motor? Or is there an
aftermarket performance kit available for these bikes? Like a Hebo or
Malossi or MK.
Thanks for any clues to my search.
Jeff in So. Cal.

I believe that Rising Sun has 70cc kits for the 50's. If it's the same as the EC50 boy, it's based on the trials mini TXT50 boy. The pre-05 EC/SM 50's ARE the trials bike with a subframe welded on.

Give them a call and see if they can help you. If I remember right, they said the 70 kit made the 50 into a cool toy for fat old men.

Don't quote me on this, but I think the motor is a Minerelli design, the bottom end is Minerelli and the top end is designed by Gas Gas, but cast in Italy by a sub-contractor.

The Gas Gas 50's are REALLY an exotic European bike if there ever was one. From my experience with the pre-05 50's, their biggest weakness is an undersized radiator and poorly located fender that impedes airflow through the microscopic radiator. In 05 they started making special motors for the EC/MX 50, eventually ditching the water cooled engine for an air cooled one.

Jim Snell at Rising Sun has all kinds of hop up tricks for the TXT/EC 50 boy minis.

Hope this helps.

I feel like I should add a disclaimer that this is mostly heresay that I have pieced together since I bought my son a brand new 2003 EC50.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'll give Jim a call soon and see what he has to say.
If my memory wasn't so fuzzy from being and old fart. I'd say I talked to Jim
about this a couple years ago....But I could be wrong.
If it is a Minerelli motor. Isn't that the same motor in the Aprilia RS50? the AM6
or AM9 motor? I would think AF1 racing would be able to get a big bore kit for
it.
I'll attach a picture from the GasGas site of the bike I am talking about.
It is a pretty cool little scoot.
looking at the picture. I don't see how this is the same frame as a TXT trials
bike though. Closer to a Pampera maybe.
Cheers and thanks. Jeff

Ahhh, truly a unique beast. That is based on the EC Rookie and it appears to be a motor based on the 80cc Trials bike. Have you tried GoFasters just for S41ts & Giggles? They have a direct line back to the factory in Spain and usually enjoy a challenge.

Looking at the factory site, it appears I'm all wet on the pre-05 SM 50's. The SM has always been in the Rookie frame, not the mini frame.

Good luck.

This is the bike I'm thinking about:


http://www.gasgasmotos.es/rcs/enduro...om/04ecboy.jpg

A considerably different bike.

Jeff,
That is the frame that the Pampera uses with minor changes for the trials engine.

Mike

Are you talking about a moped or a 2ft dirtbike?

http://www.motornet.be/modellen/imag...SMrookie50.jpg

if you are looking for a 70cc moped cilinder you coult check for a Hebo they make cilinders for the engine in the gasgas moped

Yes, that is the bike I am looking to find a high performance 70cc-80cc kit for.
Hebo products are rather hard to find here in the USA. If I knew what the
part # of the kit was. Maybe I could order one from someone here.
Thank you, Jeff

Ec 50 / Sm 50
 

Hi all, I just found this site - at last,

I have the EC50 which is pretty much identical to the SM, purchased it at 6 mths old in 2003 for the wife, sold my own bike & started riding hers, at first i hated it (lack of power)but then learned how to ride it (ring its ass every where you go),It would now go down as one of the best bikes ive ever ridden/owned, I have no hesitation riding A & B grade sections on trail rides.
As for the engine first mods to do are cut the expansion chamber in the middle as close to the weld as possible, rip out all the power deadning mesh thats there & weld it up. Next drill the air box & let the thing breath,you might have to check your carb settings to make sure your mixtures are good. Buy the time you have done this you should be good for approx 45 mph depending on your gearing and totally transform the power delivery into something enjoyable.
The motor on these is also used on the Gilera GSM and old Derbi Senda (pre 2000 models).
You will find very little information on them if you go looking for Gas GAS.
I have just put the big bore kit on it & what a difference. Power is very similar to the KTM sx 85 but has smoother more usable delivery.
The one that was recomended to me was the Italian made Malossi or the Gilardoni (Gilardoni cylinders are used as standard) rather than the cheaper Taiwan or China made units.
I went for the Malossi MHR (full race), 21mm pwk carb & bigger inlet manifold.
total cost was around $650.00 nz$ .
Engine number is EBE050
Hope this helps & I haven't waffled on too much , theres some part nos and info below.
Alex:)

Cylinder Metra Kit Pro race Derbi 70cc
(# 65199)
race set-up. 18-20 Horse Power is reachable! Fits the EBE050 engine untill
2005
Size : 47,60mm
Brench : Pro Race
Type : Metra kit
Color : Aluminium/ gold
Material : Aluminium
PinSize : Pen 12
Cooling : LC
Volume : 70cc
Fits : Derbi GPR, GPR Nude, GPR Racing, Senda DRD R, Senda DRD SM,
Senda Extreme, Senda Extreme SM, Senda R
Gilera RCR, SMT

Cylinder Hebo Manston Replica Derbi 70cc
(Artnr. HR4000145N)
The Manston Replica cylinders are developed by Hebo and produced by
Athena.
Wide butterfly ports and an aluminium insidehead are the
charasteristics of

Derbi GPR, GPR Nude, GPR Racing, Senda DRD R, Senda DRD SM, Senda
Extreme,
Senda Extreme SM, Senda R
Gilera RCR, SM

MALOSSI

MHR Replica (mid race) 79cc # 31-11693
MHR (full race) 79cc #311985
MHR Team (full worked) 79cc
WWW.malossi.com

Now THAT is some information I can sink my teeth into.
I sure hope you are correct. Do you have any links that
confirm that the MHR replica, Hebo etc.. kits for the
Derbi Senda will fit the GasGas SM50?
I purchased the Malossi MHR replica 79cc kit for MY Derbi SendaSM.
I have not installed it yet it is part # 3111693. I got the MetraKit
Pro-Race Thrower exhaust and the Delorto 21mm carb to go with it.
My Derbi is a 2002, so I am not sure the exact same kit will also
fit my friends 2002 GasGas SM50. He is not local to me so I can
not compare them face to face.
If this is true, you have made my day.
Thank you very much.
Welcome aboard the GasGasRiders club. Stick around and answer
as well as ask lots of questions.
Cheers to ya, Jeff in So. Cal.

Ec 50 / Sm 50
 

Hi Jeff, originally when I was looking I had the same run around like you got - it wasn't until I emailed some racers over in Europe that they identified the motor & 2 different people came back with it being the Derbi Senda, etc & Gillera power plants as I couldn't find any reference to GAS GAS. I then got on to scootparts, who has a good variety of suppliers in there catalogue. From what I can see the Kit you have got for the Derbi is the exact one that will fit on the Gassa.
Check out the Malossi site in my previous email.
What sort of money do you pay for the Malossi kits over in the states?

www.scootparts.nl
www.oemparts.eu/default.asp
www.opvoeren.nl/shop/uk/default.asp
www.sip-scootershop.com/

Let me know how you get on.
Alex

Here are a couple of pictures. One of the 2002 Derbi Senda motor and
one of the Malossi Kit that I bought on e-bay a couple of years ago.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...ght-engine.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...alossi80cc.jpg

I can not remember the exact price I payed, I am thinking it was some where
close to $300 US. I assume they will be more than that retail and with the
weak US dollar at this time.
You can contact Dan Pierce and POD performance.
http://www.podperformance.com/
and ask him what he charges for these kits.
Thanks again for the info.
Jeff

Ec 50 / Sm 50
 

Hi Jeff, the motor in the Gassa is the pre 2000 Derbi unit, the first thing i noticed is no hydraulic clutch, it does make me wonder why they would of done that ( save money?), I have ridden the snot out of my wifes Ec 50 & the clutch is only now showing signs of wearing after 6 years so I wouldn't think it would be reliability issues.
The head on that motor looks identical to the Gassa so that would explain why the Malossi part nos are the same for both units.
The $300.00 us would be pretty close to what I paid for my one(converted to NEW ZEALAND dollars).
Alex

A little *bump* to bring this thread back to life.
I just picked up a 2003 TXT70 Rookie last weekend.
Pretty sweet little bike I must say. Plenty of poop
for putt'ing my 200# arse around. Got it for the GF
really......
Looking @ the motor. It is not from the Derbi family.
Like an earlier poster said. It is a Morini motor with
GasGas logos on it.
Here is a close up:
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...icts/00003.jpg
And a full view of the little tyke:
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...icts/00001.jpg
After an E-mail with Dale. He tells me that the 72cc cylinder is
the largest available for the GG Morini motor that he knows of.
So, next step, is to see if this cylinder and head will fit the SM50
motor in my friends bike.
Thanks for all your past contributions.
Jeff in So. Cal.

Hey thats in very good condition for the age, Ive been looking for something like for my 9 yr old son so he can learn some skills rather than just riding his
KTM sx65.
Ive also looked at the BETA 80cc but there isnt that many around here & they seem to hold there price.
What sort of money did you pay for it?

Alex

US $2,400. Not dirtcheap, but, it is about as "new" as a used bike can get.
It is so much fun. I fear I may need to get a newer trials bike for myself.
I have a 1990 Aprilia Climber. But it is a beast compared to this lil'putter.
My only issue with the Climber is the clutch action. It is either "ON or OFF".
Very little engagement spacing. Makes it tough to slip in just enough power
when you need it.
Bikes like this TXT70 are few and far between here in the US, as far as
I can find. I am glad I found it, and so close to home.
Good luck finding one for your son. If he likes trials he should love a
bike like this one.
Jeff, So.Cal.

I remember the climber way back (i nearly brought one) loved the way it rode - not as good as my rev3 but then again 10 ys have past.
There after $6500 for a new txt rookie 80 here (07 model) & the Beta is much the same , second hand ones are hard to get as well.
I just dont want to part with that much dosh for a bike that will only last a year or two.
I might look at when hes a bit older & get me a new 125 enduro instead.
(selfish bugger. lol)
Alex

Thanks Jeff for pointing out this thread, don't know how I missed it in the 1st place, probably because it had 50 in the heading :confused:

Seeing you guys come right has giving me some hope with the GG MC 65.

Does anyone have a 2006'ish 50 trail bike?

Not sure what that above post is all about, but I thought I would share my findings in the last 6 months for the GG MC 65.

Looks like the bottom end started out as the SM 50 Rookie,I say that because the MC 65 has the hydrolic clutch. It is definitely a Derbi 50cc bottom end and must have come out appox 2005.

The top end was made by MetraKit, I think as a once off because it is a 65. Hence the GG factory want stupid prices for this barrel and piston. There are many different brands that make a big bore 70cc kit that will fit the Derbi bottom end, most of my homework was done on the MetraKit and just before I was about to buy it from a scooter place in the UK, I found a scraped MC 65 with a good top end.

Has any one had any experince with the VHST26 carb?
It's giving me grey hairs.

Bump for a thread that is more that a year old.
The GasGas SM50 that I was talking about oh-so long ago is
now parked in my garage. It is time I started to learn all I can
about the bike. Most important... "Who made the MOTOR" what
model is it and where can I order some parts for it.
I think you all know what the SM looks like and I did not take any
pictures yet of the full bike, but, here is the motor.
"left side"
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...e/IMG_0166.jpg

"Right side"

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...e/IMG_0169.jpg

Along with trying to find some big bore kits. I would also like to find a larger
countershaft sprocket. The stock one is a 12 tooth and there looks like there
would be room for a 13 or 14 tooth.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...e/IMG_0172.jpg

I have a 2002 Derbi 50SM and the motors are definitely NOT the same.
I am pretty sure the GG 50SM is a Franco Morini motor. But, what model?
From what I could find. It looks very close to the Morini M65-C motor and not
the S-6 motor
Examples:
http://www.morinifrancousa.com/engines.htm
Morini also makes the S-6 motor with liquid cooling.
These motors, or derivatives of these motors have been used in the KTM and the
LEM model of mini-bikes. But which ones? 50cc or 65cc?
Some more research is going to be required. I'll let ya'all know more when
I find out. Plus I am open to suggestions and any information you can provide.
Thank you, Jeff

After finding this:
http://www.luks.dk/pdf/65cc/Manual_65_cc.pdf.pdf
I am sold. The motors in the TXT 70 and 80 along with
the SM and Rookie 50 are Morini M65-C lower gear cases
with different top ends. They may also have different
stroke lengths in the crankshaft.
The LEM RX65 appears to share the same bottom end with
the GasGas as well.

Looking at the 2010 MC65 GasGas, that motor seems to be
something altogether different. So my confusion continues.
Jeff