Help with a JTR 160, please
 

I picked up this 1996 JTR 160 over the weekend to learn to ride trials on and I'm very excited to get going with it. The bike is still in great shape given its age.

Nothing about it is found on the GasGas site. They do not even list a manual section for year 1996. It's as if this bike never existed : (

The closest year manual I found was for the 2002 TXT but I have no idea if I can go by this for what I need to know, so asking here in the hopes someone has some knowledge of this older bike.

1) Which gear/clutch oil is correct? This 2002 book says 10w30 but someone online posted 5w30 non-synthetic. Honda makes both in their 4-stroke line that is safe for clutch plates so I will use that, once I know which.

Also, there are two black plastic caps under the engine poking through the bash plate. I assume one of these is the oil drain and that I need to remove that bash plate to get to them??

2) What is the gas to oil mixture?

3) Is the coolant a 50/50 mix or do I use it straight and how do I know the fill level?

4) There is this small digital device on the center fairing. The two black wires have been cut. Can anyone tell me what this is for and where those wires connect to?

Appreciate any help you can provide. Really in the dark on this one. BTW: If anyone knows of a third party service book that might cover this year please let me know of it.

Thanks,
George

1- regular car motor oil 5w30 non-synthetic 650cc. I dont know what these plugs are but the oil drain is on the right side towards the back. You dont need to take the bash plate off it mite be difficult to get back on.
2- 80:1
3- yes 50/50 if you cant get to the radiator cap (not real familiar with that year model, I have a 01 txt 280) you will need to take the tank off and fill it in the radiator just to cover the fins.
4- pic. would help dont know what this is.

you can shoot me a PM if you need any info not a lot of trials guys here

where are you located?

Here is Jim Snell's you tube videos. He was the US importer.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...gas+gas+videos

Appreciate the help on this. Many thanks :)

I was looking in the wrong side, perhaps. Is this the oil drain?

https://i.postimg.cc/vHkSJr9k/image.jpg

Question: you're saying I do not need to use special clutch oil in this bike as I do with my 4-strokes?

As for the coolant, I have that port exposed but I have no knowledge of how much coolant should be in there. Right now, I see nothing but cannot see in that far.

http://i.postimg.cc/cL350vBH/image.jpg

So I replaced the battery and this digital device now lights up. It appears to be a time and distance meter. I assume those clipped leads were once connected to a magnetic sensor on the front wheel to measure rotation. Make sense?

https://i.postimg.cc/TPXNwTtc/image.jpg

BTW: I'm in Connecticut.

could i see a pic of the hole bike?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKPCCsKOgr4

Just go to the bike shop and buy some 2 stroke gear oil. Some bikes are sensitive to clutch drag but should be fine. I had a TXT200 '00 and that evolved from the earlier bike. I say evolved but the engine didn't get bigger than 163 I think.

You can run less oil in a trials bike but if you trail ride on it you'd want to run more. Find a decent oil locally and run at thier prescribed level at the lean end. I used to rum 60:1.

You don't need a trip meter, (thats an aftermarket, never seen a std one still working) but do check if your fan is connected.

That was the oil drain port in the picture.

I removed the cover to the water pump and drained out the old coolant. No color to it. Looked like plain water. Flushed it a few times with clean water then added fresh 50/50 to just below the overflow tube inside the filler port.

As to the fan. It was running yesterday but idling in my shop it today, was off. The top of the engine was not that hot so I assume that's the reason... but am I correct in my thinking, here.

Question: there are two adjustments on the side of the carb. I assume one is mixture but is the other on the right with the spring the idle adjust for the throttle? Turning it to the left (out) causes the engine to slow but with much roughness.

https://i.postimg.cc/B6v5pC4X/image.jpg

Yes that is correct the one with the spring is your Idol. The other is a fuel screw it works opposite of a air screw. Jim snail has an excellent video on how to adjust that dellorto carburetor

You asked to see my bike. Here it is. Still working on it so the air box is not on and the fairings are just sitting there.

https://i.postimg.cc/Sx3HwVgY/image.jpg

I searched since June for an under 200cc trials bike. Never saw a one in a 300mile radius CraigsList search until this one came up on Sunday morning. Posted the night before.

That carb setup video you mentioned is on YouTube, I assume?

So 80:1 or 60:1 mix... Is there a consensus here or it makes little difference for trials?

First off that's one sweet bike. Trials bikes are hard to find of any size you'll find that parts are expensive for them. If that rear fender is bolted on you need to unbolt it and replace the bolts with zip ties that way when you flip it and you will it just breaks off if it's bolted the fender will break the one for my 01 cost a$150.

The first link that I sent you to the YouTube videos for Jim Snell has all of his gas gas videos I think it's seven or eight videos down it will say carb setup

90% of trials riders mix 80:1 or 100:1 like F5 said if you plan on riding it on trails you might want to go 60:1 I don't. If you do ride that on trails they do tend to get hammered it is not a dirt bike.

Where do you live? Rascal's Cycles used to be the gasgas trails dealer in Massachusetts. I think he is still has a repair shop in the Brimfiled MA area....

There is a large brass bolt in the radiator with wires to it. When it gets hot the cct completes and your fan should start.

That looks very similar to my 00 but few frame changes.

In road racing people run lots of oil, like 20:1 of synthetic which is way more than the bottles usually recomend, but better protection and more power from better sealing.

You can't hurt it putting lots of oil in. You own a 20yr old Spanish bike and all the bearings are old. I'll let you decide how much you want to push the envelope of good lubrication.

The big thing is getting the jetting right. On my 200, using NZ gas at close to sea level and 60:1 for Trials use - so many differences, it was pretty stumbly. I found 1 size smaller pilot and 1 smaller main worked wonders. Maybe the previous owner/s has already changed, but surprisingly few do.

I found my Honda dealer stocked dellorto jets as they owned montessa but that was years ago.
The mixture screw is really for how it reacts from closed to just open. In is richer, out leans it but if you are to 3 screws out go size smaller pilot jet.

Oh yeah mine was difficult to operate the choke lever as it was close to frame. Had to poke it fully on, and drilled and fitted a cable tie to make it easy to pull to close.

Always run carb out of gas. Mine would stick the float jet so would start and run for a min then die and need a tap to get it running again. Ahh, dellortos.

Thanks for the kind words. Plenty of similar trials bikes in my area. All the 250cc and higher bikes you could want in Beta, GasGas but nothing lower, until last Sunday, as I said. Also, the vintage twin shocks. Tons of them in great looking shape around here. I own a mint 1986 Honda TLR200 200cc trials bike but it has been a bear to learn on. I find the 4-strokes harder because if the engine braking causing the bike to chug in low gear. You easily lose your balance. It throws me off.

Was suggested I buy a "newer" modern trials bike, less than 200cc, to learn to ride in. So, that was how I came to own this one.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will do so. I'm sure I'll be falling off often enough :)

This one also has that choke lever way up under the frame with a cable tie attached. Where I live (and can practice a bit in the yard) is around 100' above sea level but where I can legally ride is more like 500 feet higher.

Well, I also own a Honda XR-80R dirt bike so will not be wasting this GasGas for that kind of rough riding. Still a bit confused about this oil mixing. Only owned one two stroke and it was a small scooter.

What is the advantage of altering the ratio? Is it that you have better engine/bearing protection with a lower ratio but the trade off is more smoke out the exhaust, more fouling of the spark plug... what exactly?

Also, are you running E10 gas? I have a simple method to remove the ethanol to obtain pure gas. I do it for my 1965 Triumph. Adding 1 quart of distilled water to a gallon of premium 91-93 octane gas, shaking the crap out if it, then, letting it sit for 12 hours. You can then drain off the ethanol and water leaving just gas. The octane drops 2.5 points so the reason for using premium gas going in. This lets you leave the gas in there all the time with no issues of eating the rubber, the seals, etc. will not gum up over time.

https://i.postimg.cc/6QRSNCXh/image.jpg

This is Shell 90.5 octane puregas I made three years ago. Look at the clarity and golden color. This is the way gas used to look. It smells sweet. No harsh alcohol odor to it. This gas will last forever this way.

I'm in Connecticut. Yes, the bike originated from Rascalls back in 1996 according to the paper work I have.

On this bike it appears the thermal switch is inline with the return hose from the cylinder head. See picture.

https://i.postimg.cc/Tw6s2h2v/image.jpg

This is something I need to find out. Do not want to damage anything.

Can someone tell me what these adjustments are used for. I assume they affect the front shocks but I do not feel any real difference compressing them at one extreme setting to the other.

https://i.postimg.cc/7Z5dmptd/image.jpg

I'd like to add handgrip guards to this bike. Have them on my dirt bike and they have saved me more times than I can count. However, those guards will not work on this bike as the shift/brake mechanisms are in the way.

https://i.postimg.cc/qvWYYj9R/image.jpg

Can someone take a picture of what they use on their bike so I can see just how they fit up?

Yes that is your thermostat housing. You can test your fan by unplugging it jumping the two terminals on the wires and starting the bike the fan should run.

Those are your compression and rebound settings. One fork is compression one fork is rebound. Unless you're a high-level Rider you'll feel no difference I was told to just set mine in the middle.

Back to your oil premix you can mix more oil and it does lubricate better and seal the Rings better but there's a point to where you're just throwing money out the window. If it makes you feel more secure makes it 50 to 1 it won't hurt it it would create a mess with this excess oil not being burnt. I have been running mine at 80 to 1 with Amsoil Sabre at 80 to1 for two years with no problems and I do ride mine in the woods at my clubs property

Are you talking about Bark Busters if so I would suggest not putting them on. On a trials bike the likelihood of you breaking your wrist would be real good

That's right it was an inline arrangement, it's been a while. We have gas without ethanol available.
If the jetting is close most of the fuel mixture will be burnt. If it is rich combustion won't be complete, extra mixture will be expelled. That mixture contains fuel and oil.

Additionally trials bikes spend a lot of time, I'm going to use the term slightly erroneously 'Off-pipe', so more mixture is wasted than an engine run at speeds closer to optimum, and thus more being short circuited out without being burnt.
Don't lose sleep over it, people get worked up over oil discussions.

My friend Chris is spot on - Amsoil Sabre at 80:1 or even 100:1 is an excellent oil and would be my first choice. If you decide to go with a more oil rich mixture like 50:1 or 60:1 Amsoil Dominator or Interceptor might be a better since they have a lower flashpoint. More oil makes an engine run cooler - not a bad thing in and of itself but the engine needs to get hot enough to burn off the excess oil and the temp at which that happens is called flashpoint.

So is 'burning off' the oil the most important thing? I have other requirements but ya know.

When I drained the gear oil out, it looked a but suspicious. It appeared to be Royal Purple, which is fully synthetic and not to be used in these bikes. So, I compared it to some 5w30 RP I use in my cars.

https://i.postimg.cc/T1qVsGHJ/image.jpg

As you can see, the RP from my container (on the left) is identical to what came out of this bike.

Honda makes a 5w30 conventional oil without friction modifiers for wet clutches and I plan to pick some up, today.

The fill port on this older bike is on the side above the sight glass. I read where I need to lay the bike in its side to pour in the 650cc (ml) of oil.

https://i.postimg.cc/g0WYzWMZ/image.jpg

The sight glass is odd in that it is indicating the proper amount of oil is there even though I drained out exactly 650cc. Not sure if this is just a window or if it fills with oil from the bottom and maybe it got turned up and is staying filled?

Anyone ever have these out and know how they work?

The prior owner gave me a small container of Belray two stroke oil. Nothing on there states a mixture. Will look for that Amsoil Sabre when I'm out today.

What do you folks run for tire pressure?

The glass is likely dirty. You might get a bit of brake cleaner with long spout for a short directed squirt and drain/evaporate to clean it.

Try 4psi in the back and 5 in the front and experiments from there. Low pressure gauge will give you a better reading than one expected to be accurate at normal pressures.

So you think this is just a flat glass plate, then? The oil level does go up and down if I tip the bike sideways. Just like if it had a full tank of oil. Very strange.

I have one that only goes to 15psi full gauge. Very accurate.

Let me see if I'm understanding this right. You drain the oil out and you can still see oil in the sight glass when you rock the bike back and forth?

It's a flat glass plate with a shiny metal backing so you can see it, and drain holes around it. Perhaps blocked off, but that's odd as heck. .. . So, you got 650 odd ml out and it was empty?

My sight glass is clear and you can see a gear in there when the oil is fresh or has no oil

Sorry I didn't mean to confuse you. Since you're using the bike for trials run AMSOIL Sabre in your fuel at 80 or 100 to 1 ratio. Honda also makes a very good 2 stroke oil that is rated for 100 to 1.


A whole lot of use Shell Rotella in our gear boxes with excellent results. It comes in synthetic, semi-synthetic, and conventional. Try the conventional first. If the clutch is grabby or gets grabby too quick as the oil gets dirty switch to the semi or full synthetic (these oils are thinner so they often work better and longer).

Not sure what's up with the sight glass and yes, I drained out exactly 650ml of that Royal Purple synthetic oil and it still shows oil. It must be plugged up. I can't imagine this bike burns up that much oil that you need to constantly check it. I change my oil at the start of every season to remove the moisture from winter storage.

I did notice the clutch was grabbing when the bike was in 0 gear. I'm hoping that was the oil. I don't see any adjustment for that, externally. Should I assume removing the cover will reveal springs that can be adjusted??

So, I went to the Honda dealer yesterday to buy their 5w30 motorcycle oil and, as luck would have it, one of the parts guys was a trials rider who owned a GasGas bike. He suggested I use this MTL transmission oil. He has used it for years with good results and its specifically made for wet clutches. The viscosity is very thin similar to the 30 weight. It's a golden yellow color almost like cooking oil.

https://i.postimg.cc/PqvhJvdN/image.jpg

I ended up going with this BelRay 2-cycle racing oil. Supposed to be clean burning and will not foul up the engine. We shall see.

I'm making up a fresh batch of 90.5 puregas. You can see the water/ethanol is now at the bottom of the jug where I can drain it off leaving just the gasoline.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jz2MR5V9/image.jpg

Thought I'd try some at 60:1, first, to see how it runs and how badly it smokes.

Also, bought a new kill switch to replace the crappy one that was on this bike. The original owner removed the electricals... headlight, horn and the factory kill switch was part of that assembly.

https://i.postimg.cc/nzL4qxws/image.jpg

It's amazing to me this GasGas company never provided service information for their bikes and no one ever complained. I have complete repair manuals on all my other bikes going back to my 1965 Triumph T20.

Hmm, yeah local importer made up some sort of manual. I guess I gave it away with the bike but that was 10 years ago almost.

That should be fine. They are supposed to smoke, but will smoke worst if cold and if the muffler hasn't been repacked. Actually there is a primary muffler that can't easily be cleaned. Think I just burnt out what I could and it as fine. Don't lose any sleep over it.

I came across some early info for these 1995-1996 GasGas bikes. The fuel to oil ratio suggested was 80:1 and 100:1. The minimum octane required was 95 "non-alcohol" which I take to mean not methanol since there was no E10 gas back then. Not sure how it is where you live but there is no 95 octane in my area. I'm making my 90.5 octane puregas but that is from what was 93 prior to removing the ethanol. Racing gas is way higher but illegal to run off a sanctioned track.

They also said to never use a power washer to clean your bike as, among other things, it will ruin the radiator fan. Water will enter the windings are cause corrosion and premature failure. Food for thought.

Some of this information included a Cycle magazine article about pre-mix fuels. The jist of the article, which included extensive dyno testing using a single cylinder bike, was higher fuel to oil mixtures lead to higher heat, greater cylinder wear and reduced engine performance in terms of power loss of upwards of 10%.

Granted these tests were done at higher engine speeds than are normal for trials but it appears there is a trade off going too high.

Just to confuse things octane is measured in RON or MON depending where you live so it might not be as bad as you think. Google it. I think US 90 will be higher by European measurement. Never remember which way around.

I think you are WAY overthinking things here put some gas and oil in it and enjoy.......:D:D:D

It's taken me a long time to find this bike so just want to get all things ironed out so it will last and I can enjoy it for a good long time.

Coming from an owner who freely admitted he knew nothing about maintenance and never even changed the oil in all the years he had it, I want to get things back on track. Just the way I am, I guess.

Appreciate all the help and advice. I hope to ride this weekend.

Where I live in Connecticut, trials is non-existent. Only one club in the state and very private, hard to get into. There is a group in Rhode Island (next state over) and they have hosted national and even international events with the top riders. Where I live now it's very rural. Lots of forest but unless you own it... off limits.

Connecticut is mostly open space dotted with small communities yet our state has refused to set aside land for off road vehicle use. Even though a law was passed way back in 1986 ordering the Dept. of Environmental Protection to do so, nothing was ever done. Unlike, say, the State of Pennsylvania where they have thirteen state parts set aside for such use. It's a money maker for the state between vehicle registration, sales taxes, fees to use these parks, hotels, restaurants, etc.

Some years back, I purchased property a few towns away so I'd have a place to ride my dirt bike. That was a smart move on my part. The property is basically the way it was since the ice age. Boulders, small cliffs, streams, rocky wet upward paths, land going up and down. Really perfect now that I have a trials bike to ride on it.

This is embedded into the tail section on my bike. Apparently, Gas Gas has seen some hard times. The shuttered factory in Spain was only recently reopened under new ownership. Let's hope it can find its way back.

https://i.postimg.cc/fWGGmfh7/image.jpg

Have some questions if someone can help...

https://i.postimg.cc/j2X3Wzxr/image.jpg

The petcock is marked with a C when to the right and with an R when to the left. I assume C is closed and R is reserve. I only got gas to flow when set to R.

Is straight down suppose to be the normal flow position?



https://i.postimg.cc/Y2fsyw1y/image.jpg

The chain on this bike is covered with thick gear grease, as you can see. Is there a reason you'd want to use grease as opposed to standard motorcycle chain lube as I do for my dirt bikes?

Cleaned my chain down to the bare metal in my degreaser tank, reinstalled and coated with Honda chain lube.

Had issues with the clutch not fully releasing. Doing a bleed made no difference although there was air in the line. Turns out the pressure spring in the clutch slave was missing and it was worn inside the cylinder to the point it was leaking hydraulic fluid into the bike and mixing with the transmission oil.

Ordered a complete new cylinder to replace it. Jim Snell is a great resource for these older parts and for his knowledge of the machine.

Getting there bit by bit.

My petcock is off pointing down. You will have some clutch drag not excessive but some I have not been on a gas gas bike that didn't have some kind of drag

My 200 TXT was sweet on the clutch. Was warned that some gear oils caused issues so only used what the dealer had. It was an odd one. Escapes me. In the dirt bike it find Motul Expert means Kickstart in gear ok.
But it can be ridges in the basket. Had to file them out on my EC200.