Improving my "woods" skills
 

I have only been a dedicated "woods" rider since Oct. 2011. Before that, more than 23 years have passed since I've owned a bike. The last couple of months I have been riding with some seriously accomplished riders(scary fast). I have determined, given the company I've been keeping, I suck! The positive: I don't get demoralized by getting dusted off, like I'm dragging a boat anchor. Another positive: I always enjoy my seat time. The guys I've been riding with have been patient & very gracious. I have improved way beyond where I imagined I'd be in 8 months. I can't wait 'till my son-in-law returns home in July. I still need to get "smooth" as I am an energy wasting machine. I guess time & more practice will be my friends. Thanks to those who've included me on their outings! Great Fun! Bill

You can attend any of the off road schools like the ones Shane Watts or Jason Raines put on. Those classes will take your riding to a whole new level.

If you can't find any in your area, You can go to youtube and Wattsy has his own page there. You can watch hours of techniques and exercises that you can practice anywhere. It's usually some of the most basic things where you can pick up the most on.

+1 on training - I just did a training day with chris birch and most of the stuff we did was v slow speed drills - full lock figure 8's, small blip-wheelies etc. reasoning being that your balance and clutch control at those speeds are exaggerated and will help you at high speed once they feel natuarl
if you are new to the sport it will help you even more before you become good at doing it wrong, i now need to get rid of some bad habits!

Thanks for the input. Aside from riding, crashing, riding, & crashing some more...Hours spent watching videos has helped a lot. Realistically, I have progressed way beyond the guys I used to normally ride with, with exception of my son-in-law, who's an animal on his Gasser. Unlike my friends, I have the time and desire to ride at a higher level. I do see a riding school in my future. I love the debates...2-stroke vs 4-stroke, Sitting vs standing, etc.

2T vs 4T / Standing vs Sitting / Riding vs Siteseeing :D See the relationship! lol

Seat time is your friend and it sounds like you're getting pleanty of it. The real challenge is to push your limits without biting off more than you can chew. Trashing the bike, your body and sometimes even your confidence doesn't help too much. Like others have said the basic skills are the same slow or fast. Probably even harder to do slow (think wheelies). I've never had the chance to do a training day but would jump if I could. For me I have a small trail close to home which is tight (1st gear on the pipe/2nd lugging). Very technical in terms of leaf litter, vines, trees, fallen trees, rocks, vertical drops and rises, and off camber turns. I just go out and see how long I can ride it without putting a foot down. It will take your body language, clutch, brake and throttle control to a new level.

I'm actually pretty lucky, road & mountain biking has kept me in pretty good shape. Some of the MTB, transfers to the motorbike. I do get out quite a bit. 1-3 times a week. I've discovered a little play area, where I can practice things like log hopping, riding up & over boulders, etc. I'm well aware of my weaknesses, and have been working to resolve those issues. Mostly, I need to stop being in such a hurry and ride smoothly & cleanly through the tight-twisties. Regardless of my lacking skills, it's a ton of FUN!

I am also always looking to sponge up skills and experience. If you want to practice together and make it to the Eastside of the hill.Look me up I have a nice well hidden training area. It has a little of every terrain in it. ;)

Too bad, I sold my place on the west slope of White Pass. Aside from your secret play area, Is there any legal dirtbiking in the Rimrock area? Always wanted to jeep there, but always turned around at Whistilin' Jack's and headed back up to Funny & Moonrocks.

got to do a watts class last year.. it was very cool.. i am a 49 yr old rider, been riding a while, was just not getting any better or faster. he teaches alot of basics, that i was sure doing wrong.. am i a ton faster ? no, but i am way more in control and dont have near the stupid crashes i used to. my corners are way better than ever..

alot of it is mental also.. he does a rut drill that is pretty cool, and teaches you think... "yeah.. a rut.. this will be great ".. and it works.. lots of slow speed stuff.. figure 8's.. sliding the front wheel locked up.. nose wheelies..

It sounds like you're on the right path bowhunter. The old tale rings true. You have to go slow to go fast. Like you said, don't go out there to try and ride fast. Just focus on riding continually and on refining techniques. I might even pick one thing to work on a weekend ride. Say corners.. Where I won't really try and push myself through much else than corners. Every corner making sure to tip the bike in, weight the outside peg, elbows up, looking forward. By the end of the day you are doing it all without really thinking. The next week corner entry speed/late braking. As they start to develop you'll notice them overlapping as well. I also make a mega mega mega point to myself to ride with my feet on the pegs all the time. If I need to paddle my feet like a duck to get up/over something I'll turn around and hit it again until its done right. Slow or fast! Foot pegs are made for feet and give you so much more control over where the bike is going and what its doing.

I raced my first Enduro (scramble, whatever) last month. 90 minutes of up and down, up and down, MX track, repeat. The first 40 minutes was me bashing around on everything, dragging my feet, and sitting down. Minutes 40-60 was exhaustion and adrenaline, but I was thinking about bike position. Probably my best laps. The last 20-30 minutes was pure adrenaline, completely exhausted, but the funny thing I was too tired to sit so I stood the last 20 minutes. It was too much effort to put my feet down in the corners and then pick the dead leg up onto the peg, so I just stood the whole time. I didn't realize it until the last 10 minutes, but it was interesting that it took complete exhaustion and survival instincts to ride with better body position.

My take is that it is too much work to keep sitting, sticking a leg out, standing up, sitting, etc. I wore myself out doing that when I should have just stood the whole dang time.

Interesting, since I have had children (started 4 yrs ago) my fitness dropped considerably but I still entered the odd enduro and discovered that because I knew I did not have the energy to paddle my way up climbs I made sure I thought about my line and was much more committed in my approach to ensure that I made it up first time.

There is a lot to be said for correct technique conserving energy

True that! I can ride a pretty neat pace all day long until I need to lift the bike over something or push it somewhere. Almost instantly sapped huffing and puffing and wondering why I do it to myself.

Get yourself a Trials bike and ride it. :D

Only a couple....1145,1126 The rest are jeep trails.

Well considering all the input...I decided to make a list(short, I want to live long enough to enjoy my riding), of the things I would like to improve. I'm self-motivated, so dedication to practice won't be an issue. I'll keep the wish list to myself, as most of what I lack is painfully(sometimes literally) obvious. I did do one thing, which most will appreciate...I made arrangements to have someone with me during these times. This may seem like a no-brainer, but I have established a track record of riding by myself. To those who have expressed their concerns...I've been paying attention! Hopefully I'll have some new trail vids soon.

Well, after all the input...I've been practicing:D I'm almost exclusively a stand-up rider, now. This has vastly improved my ability to pick better lines at any speed. Another plus, I'm way more comfortable in nasty, technical stuff. While my speeds on the trail are noticeably slower, I'm actually gaining time between points A-B since I'm not dragging my bike out of the brush, or flipping it right side up:eek: It's been a real education learning to apply the "smoother is faster" theory. Lately I've taken up riding in a 4x4 area. There's lots of nasties to ride on...Boulder fields, Riding the little narrow ridges between the ruts, and generally working on focus & balance. I've been giving my skid plate a gnarley workout(welded rips in it twice). My conditioning is starting to improve, as I rode a 7 hr stint, yesterday. To force myself to concentrate, I removed the seat at the end, to my push myself a bit. I really appreciate everyone's advice and input. Much like jetting, my learning curve has been shortened dramatically.

Long Ride Times
 

7 Hours of practice time on a bike makes me think you might be getting ready for... "The Off-Road Cup"

If you are getting that much practice time on a regular basis you should be dramatically smoother than when you started this thread. That's awesome!

The last few guys I have mentored all ended up faster than me. I'm changing the advice I give folks.

1. Sit down.

2. don't worry about looking very far down the trail.

3. That little twisty thing on the right side of the bar... Just twist it further.

4. Get the most powerful, Motocross bike you can buy.

5. Kickstands are for sissies.

6. Jump a lot. Do tricks.

Oh, and a bonus. Run a minimum of 30 PSI in your tyres.

My conditioning has always been pretty good. My general pace, by "racing" standards is pretty slow. When I let out the clutch, leaving the trailhead...I can ride my pace, all day.

Except for 5 & 6, pretty much me...once upon a time:D

About the 30psi thing....

When I got back into riding, after not touching a bike for 12 years, I really could not remember what pressure I needed to run in my tires. So I ended up deciding to run the same pressure that I used in my car tires (wouldn't want to ask anybody and loose my street cred!).

Well the ice skating act I put on during my first ride in a group was nothing short of breath taking, literally I ended up high siding and knocking the wind out of myself. :eek:

Years later the folks that were on that group ride commented on how squirrely I was. Luckily I was pretty dialed in by the time we got together again.

Don't tell anybody, but there have been a few folks who got extra air in their tires before trail riding while they were not paying attention. :D A quick burst from the portable tank can provide a few minutes of laughs on the trail.

Only good friends though.

Just noticed that you live in Oregon. That ride that I mention happened in Santiam Pass.

I really miss the riding (and riding partners) in the Bend and Oak Ridge areas...

I've been known to turn off fuel spiggots, during "whizz" breaks, on trail rides. Oh, the language I've heard, when a bike starts, then dies soon after:rolleyes:

If we ever ride together I am keeping a close eye on you.

You've never turned mine off..... That must mean you like me.

we have a trail which is named "jays gas stop"...... same ritual..

and i am the jay...

I like your bike. We'll have to get you out for a spin, soon. Tahuya is pretty much a swimmin' pool currently. My new toy is still in the same condition you saw it last(I don't wreck 'em like I used to):cool:

I just read this whole thread and actually I think I should be listening to you bowhunter.. You have seat time and you cross train riding mountain bikes . You watch videos to learn and then it's back to the most important part.. seat time. Thanks guys.. I've got a bad cold and I hurt my knee a couple of months ago and haven't ridden. This thread is an easy reminder of all the stuff I think most of us already know but just need a reminder.. A simple list written down and thinking what you do and what you don't do is a great one. ..and I think this thread is just that . It's a list. bowhunter sounds like you are doing fine just doing what you are already doing to get better. One of the main ones is riding with guys that are faster than you ..then riding a long time and then riding often. You watch some vids and you have decent fitness from riding mountain bike. I think I just have to do what you do:)

Thank you, for the compliments. I REALLY enjoy riding. Now that my kids are grown, I have lots of free time. My wife hasn't said a word about my frequent riding(I bought her a hay burner, oops, horse). Several of us are heading for the snow line, this Sat. I think riding in snow is fun... others, not so much:D

Back when I learned everyone sat down much of the time, only standing for the rough stuff. Clutching a lot wouldn't work, unless you felt like buying clutches every ride. Brakes? What were those? Suspension? Well, I think worked surprisingly well if you had a Euro bike (considering).

After getting back into dirt bikes and riding with one particular endurance racer, I realized how well the standing all the time worked. I used to stand just and inch or two- I still feel better in control there, but can't do it very long.
Now I stand up almost all the time and really like it. I don't care much about going really fast anymore, but like a brisk pace.
I took a Shane Watts School last year in Lebanon, OR. It was great!
Lots of stuff I was already doing, but he pointed it out and why. Some I don't do for personal reasons (I ride on the balls of my feet rather instep like he says- it is more work, but I feel better balanced, my feet are a bit more protected and I have a LHRB anyway).

He doesn't think much of LHRBs, trials tyres or Rekluse clutches. I understand why. But for me, they all work great.
I don't want to ride like him (ever see an x-ray of his torso?) but most of the excersices were extremely useful.
The 'grinding' took me a bit, but it was sure fun once I got it! He also pushed you out of your comfort zone.

One of the things I need to work on, standing during nasty hills. I still tend to sit. I make the hills, but still need to learn balance for traction etc when standing. It is not uncommon to be just tapping the front wheel along, doing little 4" wheelies- to keep traction. Especially in a nasty rut. I have many years of just leaning my upper body back and forth for balance, learning to move the lower body when standing is a new skill.
Plus those hills have lots of turns, trees, roots etc- so no way I want to blast up them. The consequences for goofing up is too great.

My riding buddies say I'm no fun to watch ride anymore (I used to just blast through stuff, bike all over the place) but I am a lot more in control and smoother now.

It is all fun!
(Might head to Tahuya next weekend - my favorite place is a bit snowy -out West )

Mark

pscook & I rode Walker Valley, yesterday. I put in almost 2 hrs of trail time, before the rest of our gang showed. By the end, I was so gassed I definitely sat for the flat and easy. We did some tree removel which expended a lot energy for the whole group. In transfer sections I got a ton of practice sliding the bike around corners(under power), on both gravel & snow(while standing). I don't think pscook saw my 4th gear stand up wheelie...I had a little too much weight rearward, when I pinned it. I don't think I've ever stabbed the rear brake lever that hard for any reason...what a rush! One thing I learned, yesterday...Hooligan riding in the snow is FUN!

*pscook & I both had cameras neither of which were used*

Next time, I promise, the camera will be mounted and used. I was so excited to ride I even forgot my water pack at the truck.

I stood the entire day (2.2 running hours) and realized that I was not even half as tired as I would normally be. The only point that need to address is being able to clutch up and zap over an obstacle while standing. I tend to take my fingers off the clutch lever and hold on for dear life when I want to loft over something. But, like Bowhunter, I am definitely more improved with body positioning when on the bike and standing. The biggest improvement from the Wattsy class is ruts, as the second I touch one I look down the trail, stand up, and let the bike do the thinking. Look for the goal, let the bike handle the details of how to get there. If I try to change direction, or even aim for the rut, I get all crossed up. Point and shoot, worked (almost) every time.

Haha!@ Sounds fun. I seem to do the same with the camera. Either run the helmet cam and don't turn it on, or carry the digital and never bother taking it out for happy snaps. I get all caught up in just riding.

On topic for me improving my skills has come from riding with people who are a bit better or who encourage you to step slightly across the comfort line. Also when riding with a more casual or larger group where the break stops increase and the general pace is slower I'll spend more time play riding on the more challenging lines, staying up on the pegs, precision placing the front wheel into/over obsticals, jumping larger logs etc. I think this is where most skills come from. If you can work on establishing the technical base skills the pace naturally follows (to a certain extent). Some people like me will never be truly fast, but I can ride up/over/through most obsticals encountered.

I agree 100%, and I'll be 1st to admit, lofting the front wheel is way out of my comfy zone. However, I've found practicing by carrying the front wheel over deep potholes is helping a lot. Snow does wonders for balance & concentration(1 tiny error, down you go).

No snow here! But we get a pretty solid wet season where everything turns to slops. Ruts become hidden under a pool of water, and the pine needles and roots become as slick as ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMNDeknHhvk

Good info in this thread. I've been riding off road for about 2-1/2 years now. I've enjoyed it so much I ended up selling my street bikes, they were just sitting in the garage. I've got the first 2 Shane Watts dvds and need to rewatch them again. I still sit down most of the time but am trying to stand up more. Subscribed.

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

Ride as often as personal(i.e. family) commitment, & your wallet allows. Once I figured out the who's who in my area, I started riding with the local enduro guys at every opportunity. Take off your seat...I still do this perodically, when out by myself(don't overdo it 'till you build some stamina, the subframe ain't very comfy to sit on). I watch lots of different vids. My biggest reason for improvement...I want to be a better off-road rider, so I dedicate the time & energy to do so. Second reason, I like riding...with a group or by myself.

Depending on where you live I find even simple things like having a log in the back yard and just spending 20mins hopping it, doing full lock turns, working the clutch, balancing etc all just off idle at walking pace is beneficial.

I think as long as you're critical of how you ride and have a desire to improve, are open to others suggestions, willing to try (and fail), you will without a doubt improve. I don't know how long I've been riding now. Would have to be at least 5 years, even though it only feels like it was just last week.

I remember the learning curve as clear as day. The small trail trash that used to bring me undone. Locking the front brake in muddy corners and taking a dirty sample. Being intimidated by steep downhills. I see it all as part of the natural learning curve. Once the bike control skills increase you find the minds confidence grows and the intimidation and fear resides. Just keep having fun and working within your skills and they'll improve in no time.