2018 300ec starter issues

[gg3]

Don't START with the puns.

[farmerj]

Originally Posted by gg3

My second cheap KTM copy starter arrived.Did the 180 degree rotation to change rotation to clockwise & tried it.
https://youtu.be/frbNoDAyVac
Still not turning over great but worked.Recap of process-
All positive & negative leads replaced with bigger cable & clean all contacts & earths.
Ran new earth to starter motor mount.
Replaced stator(was ok in hind sight).
Lithium 240cca battery fully charged 13.4v
New AS3 bendix cover & doubled the gaskets.
Welded bendix shaft then got a OEM new bendix (which came welded).
Checked the bevel gear parts 17 & 20 engagement & greased.Checked bevel gear bearings are smooth & whole assembly with pinion gear operate smoothly.
filed & cleaned up sharp edges on the flywheel/ring gear.
Spent countless hours with shims,washers,gaskets & gear marking grease to check & correct engagement of parts.

I am fairly convinced the main problem is the pinion gear & bendix bind up when under load. I am thinking there are new bikes with the pinion shaft & bendix shaft not running parallel and/or distance apart not correct.Other bikes as they get hours up the shaft housings are getting out of round or sloppy causing binding.

Both are made worse by small cables not getting enough power to the starter & the constant binding & load is burning out the starters.
The last starter I had I ruined by constant testing.It still spins up fast but has lost torque.I'm sure the new one will give up as well after a while.I am going to try fitting a low friction bush into each end of the bendix shaft housings & then machine down the shaft ends to fit.

This was a great post. Your thoughts on the "pinion shaft & bendix not running parallel" make a lot of sense to me. Everything can spin freely by hand on my bike, but when torque is applied binding occurs.

Do you think there could be problems in the case side as well as the sloppy cover housings? (maybe this is what you're getting at with "fitting a bush into each end of the bendix shaft housing"). Love the new Rieju cover (and Ebay option) - just wondering if this will be "the solution" or if slop on the other end is contributing to the problem as well...

Jeff

[gg3]

Thanks,has been a PITA.
You are right on with the case side bendix shaft housing.
I have ordered some oilless bushes for both ends & will machine the bendix shaft down to fit.Machining the case & cover for a bearing is a much better solution but I'm looking for the easiest & cheapest way for anyone to do it.Much easier to pop the bendix out,get an engineer to take 1mm off the shaft each end,tap the bushes in,job done......well that's the plan?

[Doc Brown]

Originally Posted by blitz11

Huh? Not even a bronze bushing? That's shocking (pun sort of intended given that this is connected to an electrical part.)

Boy, no wonder there are binding/friction issues. I had no idea that they have a shaft running in an aluminum casting.

No, just Russian style as we say. Plain aluminium used as bearing.

[blitz11]

Originally Posted by Doc Brown

No, just Russian style as we say. Plain aluminium used as bearing.

They would have failed my mechanical design class!

[Gasser Nate]

Plenty of old bikes run cam shafts in plain aluminium castings with no issues for tens of thousands of kilometres. The issue is lubrication. Grease just is not good enough, gets flung off and never to be seen again. Everyone needs to get on the wet mod. Works wonders.

[Doc Brown]

Originally Posted by Gasser Nate

Plenty of old bikes run cam shafts in plain aluminium castings with no issues for tens of thousands of kilometres. The issue is lubrication. Grease just is not good enough, gets flung off and never to be seen again. Everyone needs to get on the wet mod. Works wonders.

Lubrication plus exact fitment. The Bendix cover and its plain bearings may work if the shafts of the pinion and bendix would be perfectly aligned.

Having an old sarter armature inserted while tightening the bendix cover was an eye opener...

[Iakovos1]

Originally Posted by gg3

My second cheap KTM copy starter arrived.Did the 180 degree rotation to change rotation to clockwise & tried it.
https://youtu.be/frbNoDAyVac
Still not turning over great but worked.Recap of process-
All positive & negative leads replaced with bigger cable & clean all contacts & earths.
Ran new earth to starter motor mount.
Replaced stator(was ok in hind sight).
Lithium 240cca battery fully charged 13.4v
New AS3 bendix cover & doubled the gaskets.
Welded bendix shaft then got a OEM new bendix (which came welded).
Checked the bevel gear parts 17 & 20 engagement & greased.Checked bevel gear bearings are smooth & whole assembly with pinion gear operate smoothly.
filed & cleaned up sharp edges on the flywheel/ring gear.
Spent countless hours with shims,washers,gaskets & gear marking grease to check & correct engagement of parts.I am fairly convinced the main problem is the pinion gear & bendix bind up when under load.
I am thinking there are new bikes with the pinion shaft & bendix shaft not running parallel and/or distance apart not correct.Other bikes as they get hours up the shaft housings are getting out of round or sloppy causing binding.Both are made worse by small cables not getting enough power to the starter & the constant binding & load is burning out the starters.
The last starter I had I ruined by constant testing.It still spins up fast but has lost torque.I'm sure the new one will give up as well after a while.I am going to try fitting a low friction bush into each end of the bendix shaft housings & then machine down the shaft ends to fit.

2019 xc300 ~50 hours. I just replaced gears and bearings and put a AS3 cover. Used old bendix and sprocket because I did not believe they were bad. Still binding like I didn?t touch a thing. I believe you are right that the pinion gear is binding with bendix. Now what??

[farmerj]

FYI all -

One other place where binding can happen is between Pinion Gear (#17) and Starter Gear (#20). I have seen the two gears mesh too tightly, so that when you spin them by hand they feel "notchy" vs. spinning smoothly.

What happens is that if you have a hard time getting the Starter shaft splines into the Starter Gear and use force (i.e., a rubber mallet or equivalent on the end of the Starter), it can push the two gears closer together making them hard to turn.

It does not seem like this should happen, because the Starter Gear bottoms out onto a machined lip. But there is a slight amount of play between the machined lip and the circlip on the other side.

I have inserted a thin punch between the gears when installing the Starter to make sure this doesn't happen.

Jeff

[farmerj]

Originally Posted by Iakovos1

2019 xc300 ~50 hours. I just replaced gears and bearings and put a AS3 cover. Used old bendix and sprocket because I did not believe they were bad. Still binding like I didn?t touch a thing. I believe you are right that the pinion gear is binding with bendix. Now what??

I think the options for that issue are:
(1) Try to buy a new Rieju bendix cover (with the bearings) as in the picture above.
(2) Purchase the cover with bearings offered on Ebay as mentioned earlier in this thread.
(3) Wait for gg3 to perfect his mod (install bushings in existing areas and machine Bendix & Pinion shafts to fit).

One other idea, which I intend to post on more fully at some point, is to go with a 24V starting system. The extra power from doing this overcomes deficiencies in the gear drive system. My dealer has done 3 bikes like this. His battery solution is the "new news" as far as I am concerned - Antigravity makes a "small case" battery, and two of them will fit in the original GG battery compartment, stacked on one another. Wire up the second battery between starter solenoid and starter, and good to go!

https://antigravitybatteries.com/pro...l-case/ag-401/

Did your starter work before you replaced gears/bearings/AS3 cover?