Long/Stroker rod for 01 XC?

[Fred1956]

Hey Jeff, I still have this 274 cylinder that has ALL LOW END & mid power. It was sold to me as an 'Eric Gorr ported for low end + squish set'. No top end rev out, it was way more like a trials bike power and just didn't work for hare scrambling. Cylinder, head, piston, rings, power valve & wrist pin. I haven't checked ring gap but it was a first kick starter when I took it off. I ran it for a while but went back to stock w/RB head mod for what I do. I'd take $200 + shipping. If you want it let me know

[jgas]

Hey Fred! You are one of the shops I was considering to rebuild my bike. Yes, I want your top end, provided one thing: Does it stall more easily than a stock setup? My 285 YZ did, but YZs stall easier than GG anyway, so it may not matter. My YZ already had an 8oz flywheel weight, I went to a 14 oz, which they make for YZs, but not GGs, which they only make up to 12. That helped greatly with the stalling, and smoothed it out a bit, but it was still hard to start, easy to stall, and just had too much power everywhere for me. That YZ was built by Randy Hawkins so it may have been ported, no telling what mods were actually done so my guess is that your 274 head being on a GG which is less stall prone than a Yamaha won't be much different than stock regarding stalling. It might even be less stall prone? Sounds like a great deal. I'm kinda weird in my power delivery preference. I almost never rev out any fast motor anyway. I prefer to short shift and try for smoothness over speed.

Some of my many surgeries were 4 major eye surgeries and several more lazer procedures so my eyesight isn't perfect. I can't see well close up, and not great real far away, especially in changing light, such as we get all the time going from woods to open terrain, and with varying cloud cover, so I think some of my dislike for a hard pulling top end is my bike sometimes outruns my eyes? And then if light conditions are perfect, and I can see ok, my back and knees hurt like heck if I hit something big while sitting down, and I can't stand up for long, so I try for good corner speed, smoothness, few mistakes, etc. I kinda try to go fast by doing everything right except really going fast, if that makes sense. Ok, I said I was gonna quit whining and I didn't.

But Fred, I do want your top end. I am hoping that a 274 won't be hard to kick, and it's worth trying even if I end up going to a 300 later with low compression and a raised head. I may eventually buy another older GG for a spare bike, probably a 300. I am riding and working all weekend at BC, I'll contact you next week and send you a check if thats ok, and we'll talk cost for you to do the whole job. Jim Cook recommended you by the way. He said he would help out with any additional parts or advice needed for the build, but he's not doing much bike work himself lately.

GMP, I am one of the broken foot guys that was at that BC WUDI ride. I only lost one toe and bone on the outside of my foot, but it was not at BC, happened at another closed down riding place. There are actually 2 other guys I know who lost toes, one guy from Kansas City lost his big toe and part of the one next to it, (a lost big toe is a much bigger issue than mine), and the other guy lost 2 toes on the outside of his shift foot. I think both guys were at that WUDI as was I. Much of the damage to my foot was not from the initial injury which was not all that bad, but from Gangrene and Osteomylitis, and I already had a serious back injury which screwed up the same foot and leg. It's only been recently that I got it strong enough to kickstart anything harder than a 200 2 stroke, and now I am having some abnormal bone growth which will require another surgery soon, but that should fix me up for awhile I hope. They think one or more pins have backed out of my ankle bone, which they can now remove, and they have to shave some bone spurs off of the 4th toe which now takes the my weight and it's getting abnormal due to the other changes.

Long story short, I can now kick a 250 or even a 300, but there is a big difference to me. I like the short lever and kick lever placement/ergos on a GG. For some reason it hurts far less than Yamahas or KTMs. I recently sold that really nice YZ 285 because it just hurt too much to start it was the main reason although as I said I had other issues with it. Most bikes you have to start with the starter almost straight up and down, then have a long way to move it through the stroke. On my GG it starts at less than 90 degrees to the bike, then is a short quick kick, and my foot just hits the flat footpeg, (I have really wide pegs too), and my foot is stopped by the peg rather than bottoming out when the starter does, which would put all the force on a narrow section on my foot from the small diameter lever. Not something that most people even notice. After riding for about an hour, my foot, calf, and lower hamstring gets really weak from the back injury. After a really long hard ride I can barely walk for awhile, I sometimes have to use a cane and leave my riding boots on for support, or wear high top hiking shoes so my ankle doesn't just fall over. I twist my ankle at least 10 times a week in normal living. It's gotten so flexible it sometimes doesn't even hurt when I twist it! I guess my body has adapted to the overflexion over the years?

Ok, NOW I'm really gonna quit whining.

GMP, you are correct about buying a new bike. I occasionally bought new bikes when I raced whole seasons, but I just can't justify the cost since I don't race and I just beat them up at BC and Trainrobbers. Also, I kinda fell in love with my 01 XC. For some reason that bike makes me smoother and faster. I rarely make mistakes on it and I don't get as tired. I like 250 4ts also, have a CRF 250 X, but it won't stay together. (Top ends). I think if I get the GG rebuilt right it might last a couple of years. I am also loving the overall quality of the GG. I've ridden it a year and the wheel bearings and linkage bearings are not worn out, the spokes aren't loose, everything feels almost as tight as when I bought it. Even feels tighter than a KTM with the same hrs, and I like the handling/turning far better than a KTM. I also like the linkage and Ohlins shock. It seems to almost never "kick" up or sideways, and always feels planted and stable, far better than any KTMs I've tried. I think the extra 10 lbs over a KTM actually helps with the stability, but once riding I don't feel the weight at all, in fact I get less tired because it tracks straighter in rocks and feels more stable, and I'm not constantly chasing it.

I also have a theory that certain bikes work better for sit down riders than for stand up riders. Not that a good rider can't ride anything fast, but for me, bikes that turn to quick really suck. I think it's mainly from steering head being at a steep angle? I can put up with a slow turning bike like a Husaberg or older KTM, but a quick turner like a KTM 200 slows me down from making me make mistakes. A more talented rider might like that quickness, and stand up riders seem to prefer quick steering.

My GG seems to be right in the middle. I can attack turns any way I like. I can brake slide, lean over and power through, do a quick brake slide and powerslide through, or brake early with the bike straight up and down and then powerslide all the way through. On almost any turn, I have options and the bike is versatile enough to do it all. Very few bikes seem to have that perfect balance that allows this versatility. It is predictable in ruts, flat turns, off cambers, everywhere. For a 2 stroke, my GG feels just a little heavier in the front similar to a small bore 4t. My CRF 250 X is a bit heavier feeling, but fairly close to the GG. The turning effort is slightly harder than most other 2 strokes, but I like that. It makes the front tire feel planted and predictable.

Yes, I am picky and think too much. I used to just want a bike with a fast motor and I'd muscle it around no matter what it wanted to, I could bend it to my will. Now I guess old age and injuries is forcing me to think about things that used to not matter?

Ok, I've typed enough! Gotta go load up so I can go to BC tomorrow and poke around on my old DRZ and do some work.

Fred, consider your 274 parts sold. Talk to you next week.

Jeff.

[(F5)]

For ease of starting a low compression head might be the go. Setting the squish at 1mm is nice for clean burning, but raises the comm up too high so you need to take some area out of the head. You could get someone to measure it & take it down to say 11:1 (full stroke) which should make it easy to kick.

[jgas]

How does lower compression affect power delivery? I assume it's simply less power throughout the rev range? I do know that lower comp makes any bike easier to kick. You can feel it get easier as a motor ages.

[GMP]

jgas,

I'd be willing to bet that of all your surgeries, your fingers aren't included because you type like hell in every post! Smokin' that keyboard!

I remember guys talking about a guy who lost his toes "two toes gone" who went back with a sledgehammer for revenge on the rock that got him!

Lower compression will let the motor rev more and soften low end. Thats the point though, the 300 has more than enough stock and your trading it off for a softer delivery and easier kick. Squish is independent of compression, it should be 1mm for a 250-300 regardless. Compression is the last thing adjusted by dome volume.

[andoman]

The answer to your stalling issue is an AUTO-CLUTCH.
Crap out in any technical situation or tip it over. Doesn't matter cuz the bike stays running. Happily idles while you get your act together.

[Diggs345]

Cant you fit a decompressor into the head , i did that on my cr500 and it worked well for me

[Diggs345]

Here is one on a 500 , http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/843...on-valve-pics/
i put a chainsaw decompressor into mine , i welded in some 22mm alloy bar then drilled and tapped the head for the decompressor .
No overheating problems due to reducing the water jacket.

[GMP]

I don't think you have to go this custom for a solution. That was on a 500 which is a real beast, plus a 300 already has a compression bleed hole. Determine what is the most compression you can stand to kick, and have Ron at RBD work with that. It would be a relatively cheap and simple solution.

[Fred1956]

Originally Posted by jgas

Hey Fred! You are one of the shops I was considering to rebuild my bike. Yes, I want your top end, provided one thing: Does it stall more easily than a stock setup? My 285 YZ did, but YZs stall easier than GG anyway, so it may not matter. My YZ already had an 8oz flywheel weight, I went to a 14 oz, which they make for YZs, but not GGs, which they only make up to 12. That helped greatly with the stalling, and smoothed it out a bit, but it was still hard to start, easy to stall, and just had too much power everywhere for me. That YZ was built by Randy Hawkins so it may have been ported, no telling what mods were actually done so my guess is that your 274 head being on a GG which is less stall prone than a Yamaha won't be much different than stock regarding stalling. It might even be less stall prone? Sounds like a great deal. I'm kinda weird in my power delivery preference. I almost never rev out any fast motor anyway. I prefer to short shift and try for smoothness over speed.

Some of my many surgeries were 4 major eye surgeries and several more lazer procedures so my eyesight isn't perfect. I can't see well close up, and not great real far away, especially in changing light, such as we get all the time going from woods to open terrain, and with varying cloud cover, so I think some of my dislike for a hard pulling top end is my bike sometimes outruns my eyes? And then if light conditions are perfect, and I can see ok, my back and knees hurt like heck if I hit something big while sitting down, and I can't stand up for long, so I try for good corner speed, smoothness, few mistakes, etc. I kinda try to go fast by doing everything right except really going fast, if that makes sense. Ok, I said I was gonna quit whining and I didn't.

But Fred, I do want your top end. I am hoping that a 274 won't be hard to kick, and it's worth trying even if I end up going to a 300 later with low compression and a raised head. I may eventually buy another older GG for a spare bike, probably a 300. I am riding and working all weekend at BC, I'll contact you next week and send you a check if thats ok, and we'll talk cost for you to do the whole job. Jim Cook recommended you by the way. He said he would help out with any additional parts or advice needed for the build, but he's not doing much bike work himself lately.

GMP, I am one of the broken foot guys that was at that BC WUDI ride. I only lost one toe and bone on the outside of my foot, but it was not at BC, happened at another closed down riding place. There are actually 2 other guys I know who lost toes, one guy from Kansas City lost his big toe and part of the one next to it, (a lost big toe is a much bigger issue than mine), and the other guy lost 2 toes on the outside of his shift foot. I think both guys were at that WUDI as was I. Much of the damage to my foot was not from the initial injury which was not all that bad, but from Gangrene and Osteomylitis, and I already had a serious back injury which screwed up the same foot and leg. It's only been recently that I got it strong enough to kickstart anything harder than a 200 2 stroke, and now I am having some abnormal bone growth which will require another surgery soon, but that should fix me up for awhile I hope. They think one or more pins have backed out of my ankle bone, which they can now remove, and they have to shave some bone spurs off of the 4th toe which now takes the my weight and it's getting abnormal due to the other changes.

Long story short, I can now kick a 250 or even a 300, but there is a big difference to me. I like the short lever and kick lever placement/ergos on a GG. For some reason it hurts far less than Yamahas or KTMs. I recently sold that really nice YZ 285 because it just hurt too much to start it was the main reason although as I said I had other issues with it. Most bikes you have to start with the starter almost straight up and down, then have a long way to move it through the stroke. On my GG it starts at less than 90 degrees to the bike, then is a short quick kick, and my foot just hits the flat footpeg, (I have really wide pegs too), and my foot is stopped by the peg rather than bottoming out when the starter does, which would put all the force on a narrow section on my foot from the small diameter lever. Not something that most people even notice. After riding for about an hour, my foot, calf, and lower hamstring gets really weak from the back injury. After a really long hard ride I can barely walk for awhile, I sometimes have to use a cane and leave my riding boots on for support, or wear high top hiking shoes so my ankle doesn't just fall over. I twist my ankle at least 10 times a week in normal living. It's gotten so flexible it sometimes doesn't even hurt when I twist it! I guess my body has adapted to the overflexion over the years?

Ok, NOW I'm really gonna quit whining.

GMP, you are correct about buying a new bike. I occasionally bought new bikes when I raced whole seasons, but I just can't justify the cost since I don't race and I just beat them up at BC and Trainrobbers. Also, I kinda fell in love with my 01 XC. For some reason that bike makes me smoother and faster. I rarely make mistakes on it and I don't get as tired. I like 250 4ts also, have a CRF 250 X, but it won't stay together. (Top ends). I think if I get the GG rebuilt right it might last a couple of years. I am also loving the overall quality of the GG. I've ridden it a year and the wheel bearings and linkage bearings are not worn out, the spokes aren't loose, everything feels almost as tight as when I bought it. Even feels tighter than a KTM with the same hrs, and I like the handling/turning far better than a KTM. I also like the linkage and Ohlins shock. It seems to almost never "kick" up or sideways, and always feels planted and stable, far better than any KTMs I've tried. I think the extra 10 lbs over a KTM actually helps with the stability, but once riding I don't feel the weight at all, in fact I get less tired because it tracks straighter in rocks and feels more stable, and I'm not constantly chasing it.

I also have a theory that certain bikes work better for sit down riders than for stand up riders. Not that a good rider can't ride anything fast, but for me, bikes that turn to quick really suck. I think it's mainly from steering head being at a steep angle? I can put up with a slow turning bike like a Husaberg or older KTM, but a quick turner like a KTM 200 slows me down from making me make mistakes. A more talented rider might like that quickness, and stand up riders seem to prefer quick steering.

My GG seems to be right in the middle. I can attack turns any way I like. I can brake slide, lean over and power through, do a quick brake slide and powerslide through, or brake early with the bike straight up and down and then powerslide all the way through. On almost any turn, I have options and the bike is versatile enough to do it all. Very few bikes seem to have that perfect balance that allows this versatility. It is predictable in ruts, flat turns, off cambers, everywhere. For a 2 stroke, my GG feels just a little heavier in the front similar to a small bore 4t. My CRF 250 X is a bit heavier feeling, but fairly close to the GG. The turning effort is slightly harder than most other 2 strokes, but I like that. It makes the front tire feel planted and predictable.

Yes, I am picky and think too much. I used to just want a bike with a fast motor and I'd muscle it around no matter what it wanted to, I could bend it to my will. Now I guess old age and injuries is forcing me to think about things that used to not matter?

Ok, I've typed enough! Gotta go load up so I can go to BC tomorrow and poke around on my old DRZ and do some work.

Fred, consider your 274 parts sold. Talk to you next week.

Jeff.

Jeff, I don't remember any stalling issues but I think that bike did have a FWW, maybe 10oz?? on a 2K-2 but I put a 2K-3 on it after that. One of Jim Cook friends (Bob Diffee)has the bike now and I believe they may have removed that weight or maybe I sold it with the 2K-2 & traded the weight for something on the '04 I had. Dang getting old I guess. Just give me a call