Sachs vs Ohlins/Zokes in 2011?

[noobi]

They do listen, but like it or not NA isnt their biggest market at the moment, so they set up the bikes best for European conditions, and unlike ktm, gg cant afford to offer a whole different range of bikes for NA.

[mrkartoom]

Originally Posted by noobi

They do listen, but like it or not NA isnt their biggest market at the moment, so they set up the bikes best for European conditions, and unlike ktm, gg cant afford to offer a whole different range of bikes for NA.

If they plan to be successful this side of the pond they have to.

[GMP]

I think this in all in flux and will change as Clay grows the US market. The more sales, the more clout to make market specific changes for the following year. Remember, this is the first full model year with Clay at the helm.

Mrkartoom, you and I both know that the NETRA terrain is a different animal and requires a special setup to get the most out of any bike. We are not the masses. I consider a revalve like handguards and a skidplate when buying a new bike. So, we can look at this in two ways: On the negative side, we have to revalve any bike we get. On the plus side, we don't care what the stock valving is like because we ARE going to revalve it anyway. As long as the components, by design, respond to tuning is whats important.

[mrkartoom]

Originally Posted by GMP

I think this in all in flux and will change as Clay grows the US market. The more sales, the more clout to make market specific changes for the following year. Remember, this is the first full model year with Clay at the helm.

I agree with all that and think that Clay is doing a great job. I see nothing but positive with the the things I'm hearing from him and the direction things are going, hence my eagerness to buy of of these things. There are two ways to look at things going forward: be proactive to the US market or be reactive. I'm just saying I think they need to do both for the greatest chance for success here. This is a suspension thread, but my opinion is really inclusive of the whole machine. I didn't really clarify that.

I don't think they need to do what KTM does and offer a specific line, but I do think they need to target US-specific wants to be really successful, meaning they can't just expect what's good for Europe to sell like hotcakes over here and scratch their heads if it doesn't. They know that and if they don't I'm sure Clay is driving it home.

As far as suspension settings go I know they have to go after Joe Average. To my pleasant surprise though I am very happy with what I got. My Sachs stuff is way better than any other stock setup I have had, and as good as the very pricey, specific-tuned stuff on my last bike. That's pretty amazing to me.

[GasGas]

I just did 2 amazing rides this weekend on the new six days 250. Firstly the thing is a tractor on the hill climbs. Why anyone would need a 300 is beyond me. No offence to you 300 riders. I rode one of those this weekend as well and it was still nice. Back on track here, suspension. Wow. I have the ohlins 888 shock and 48mm Sachs forks. By far the nicest setup I have ever ridden. It is very compliant everywhere and i haven't turned a clicker yet. I expect it will only improve with some fine tuning. We ride roots, logs and a lot of rocks around here (99.8 km's of it today) and the bike is just letting me ride at an entire new level. It's like cheating really. It even works really well on the mx tracks on the same clicker settings. I'm scared to adjust anything. It's too nice like it is.

[rod]

The 45mm shivers that were on my '05 ec 300 gave me the shivers.
Even after two reputable Australian suspension tuners had a go at them during the 5 years i had the bike they were still shite.

Not only do they look and feel spindly at 45mm, they're a archaic design from the 1990's. Copy of early showa's i believe, at least the '05 was.

Try getting an ohlins TTX kit for 45mm zokes = not possible.

Try getting an ohlins TTX kit for 48mm sachs = ohlins part # fggg 1182.

I'm a nobody, but 45mm zokes make me want to puke, go the sachs 48mm everytime.

[AZRickD]

Folks who ride my re-sprung and LTR-massaged Ohlins/Zokes from my 2005 DE250 say the suspension is just fine.

[GMP]

How fast are you Rod?

Mine work very well too, at my "B" level speed in some very tough terrain. They have their quirks but I would not call them shite as far as performance goes. I think the biggest mistake riders make with this fork is misinterpreting the inadequate high speed rebound control and subsequent "spike" for a compression problem.

[rod]

Not fast at all, i'm a 49yo, 85 to 90kg clubman. I just never got the zokes to my liking.

My request to the 1st tuner was to give me a firmer fork that sat up in the stroke a bit more, something that didn't bottom out as frequently but still compliant for the smaller stuff.

What i got was a fork that was probably more suited to an mx track, it was revalved and had .45 prings (up from .42) and sat up nicely in the stroke. It was just too firm in the initial part of the stroke for bush/woods riding no matter what i did with clickers.

My request to 2nd tuner was fix the mess of 1st tuner and give me some plushness for the bush, he carried out his bush land mod,revalved,and went back to softer springs, .42 or .43 from memory. The result was beautifully plush forks up to a point but then they would just blow through the stroke when hitting something hard or unforseen.

Anyway, i simply found the ttx/sachs straight out of the box to be exactly what i was trying to achieve with the shivers. I'm sure these forks could be improved too, but for my ability they're sweet. The front end doesn't sag excessively when just sitting on the bike, it soaks up the little stuff well without deflection,doesn't blow through the stroke on mid to bigger hits and only bottoms out when you'd expect it should.

As i said i'm a nobody but i have been riding dirt bikes since i was 10yo, so i know what i like.

[GMP]

Thats a tuner and or tuner/rider communication issue not a fork issue. I'm sure the TTX is great stuff but the average and even above average rider should not feel he has to spend the $$ on TTX for a decent performing fork. The Zokes can work very well.

FWIW, your only a couple lbs heavier than me, and I run .44s, but with very little preload. Too much preload is the devil in the trail trash. Stiffer springs, less preload, more rebound, less bleed is where its at.