200 Jetting, help me sort this thing

[noobi]

Iv tryed to find some jetting specs for an 07 EC200, but im not having much luck

So, a 2007 EC200, 60 hours, stock engine
At the moment its running a 178, 50, and NBHW ( its a weird needle, the stalk of the B carries on above the letter, if that makes sense,and the W is really squashed??? ) on the 3rd clip.
40:1 motul 800 with 96 or 98
elevation is between say 0 and 1000feet most of the time, and temps range between 5degrees c and 15degrees c, its winter.

Now, iv been told that the jetting is probably too rich, so I lowered the needle, and it became less responsive from little throttle, so I raised the needle to the second from top, and this made the bike much more responsive from little throttle, I have a ledge I practice hopping onto, and I had to clutch it to get up with the leaner needle setting, but only had to pull back and open the throttle with the richer needle setting.....weird
Also, the bike smokes alot, suggesting that the bike is rich, not burning off all fuel/oil etc, and it didnt smoke on the leaner needle setting, but didnt run as well as it did on the 3rd clip(stock), and obviously it still smoked on the richer needle setting. The plug reading also suggest its rich, the plug is definitely black.
But when I made the bike richer it ran better.....!!!!!!
Gaahhhhh

[Brian]

Motul 800 has a really high flash point, I don't think its a very good trail riding oil. If you want to stick with Motul go with 710, much lower flash point. That is what I use. Much less spooge and smoke then 800 I have found.

[noobi]

Originally Posted by Brian

Motul 800 has a really high flash point, I don't think its a very good trail riding oil. If you want to stick with Motul go with 710, much lower flash point. That is what I use. Much less spooge and smoke then 800 I have found.

Thats interesting
On a side note, does anyone have any experience with Elf 2XT, I work at a bike shop that gets it by the barrel, so it cost be around 10NZD per litre. Where as Motul 800 is 2 and a half times as expensive

[geoff g]

This is what worked for me............42 pilot / 178 main / NIEG needle on the middle clip / #6 slide / BR8EG plug / 50:1 Motorex Crosspower 2T / 98 octane pump fuel / Nulon octane booster.

[roostafish]

Don't use smoke or spooge as a jetting tool, it has very little to do with how the enginve is running. Unless the bike is horribly rich, richer is more powerful. What you described makes perfect sense to me.

The Elf oil is fine, I'd go with less money and use the Elf.

[noobi]

geoff g, are your hights and temperatures similar to mine??
I bought a smaller pilot, so ill put that in and see how it goes, but at the moment its running pretty well imo, so anything I change is purely academic.
And ill change that weird needle out, and compare it to the N1EG from my 125, which is retired for the time being.

roost, then what would cause the smoke? it has a piston and ring which is only 30 hours old? and it has always smoked a bit, but less when it gets hot

cheers

[stainlesscycle]

here's what i've found. (2000 xc200)
i'm running 50:1 amsoil dominator. 1000-2000 ft elevation. 70 degrees. when it's colder (below 50 degree it needs 1 step richer on main and pilot)
38mm carb is probably too big for the 200. needs more intake velocity to idle better. i had considered building up intake with epoxy, but it's easier to just get a smaller carb so i ordered a 36mm carb, waiting for it to arrive and see if it fixes some idle problems i have.

richer is definitely stronger until it gets horribly rich.

i have #7 slide. br8eg plug, advanced 1 degree from stock.

on my 200, when i jetted by plug reading
42 pilot, 172 main. 3rd position, 1.5 turns out. ddk needle. bike idles great, but is weak on the bottom. plug reads good color.

BUT

when i jet by seat of pants (current jetting):

48 pilot, 175 main, 3rd position 2.5 turns out, ddk needle. is much much stronger from bottom and more responsive bike. plug is black. i ride on the pipe a lot - (like always at top of rev range..) , but i think the black is the pilot. bike pulls hard from the bottom. will pull front end up with ease in first 2 gears (i'm 190lbs...if i lean back it'll pull up in 3rd and if i give it a yank and pull back 4th gear wheelie is possible....)13/52 gearing
48 pilot also smokes a bit, and can load the plug up if i just idle all day - in the tight stuff i'm constantly revving/clutching to keep it clean, which is EXTREMELY annoying during races... smoke cleans up when hot, and on the pipe..

here's the kicker:
bike refuses to idle when hot with 48 pilot. idles great with 42 pilot. but 42 pilot makes bike anemic from the bottom. idle screw has no effect, and i've resorted to lifting slide with throttle adjuster... can get it to idle, but it's almost outta pilot circuit by that point i think...

on advise from les at lt racing :
i'm hoping a 36mm carb will help. #6 or #5 slide will help too. when i get the carb later this week, i'll post my findings.. the other problem i haven't figured out yet is the 36mm carb is possibly 20mm shorter front to back, we'll see if airbox boot will stretch to fit it. also 36mm carb is possibly a bit taller (conflicting measurements at sudco and keihin..) i hope it don't hit the gas tank..

[geoff g]

Noobi, yes elavation and temp very similar to you, however, you do need to go slightly richer in winter and leaner in summer, I adjust this on the air screw.

[Rick]

Stainless>>>>when you advanced the timing....did it wake up? Can did you notice a difference?

Thanks

[roostafish]

Originally Posted by noobi

roost, then what would cause the smoke? it has a piston and ring which is only 30 hours old? and it has always smoked a bit, but less when it gets hot

cheers

Smoke can be caused by the the buildup of spent oil in the expansion chamber and silencer. Using an oil with a high flashpoint like Motul 800 can exacerbate the problem. Riding a lot at low rpm will build up more residual oil in the exhaust too. When you start to rev the bike and the exhaust gets hot, some of that leftover oil burns and smokes. If you've ever really rode the bike hard for a sustained period, say, up a long hill, you can actually start a fire inside the exhaust and it will smoke really badly. You can hear the fire crackling inside the expansion chamber. It was kind of scary the first time I ever heard it, and I was concerned for all of the smoke coming out of my exhaust. It was a KTM 125, pretty much always on the pipe.