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Enduro Electrical & Wiring Lighting, Ignition, Wiring, Plugs, etc.


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  #11  
Old 05-17-2013, 05:19 AM
STEVEV STEVEV is offline
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The GG is simple and straight forward. How many years did it take KTM to really get it right? They have a good design; just needs refining.


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  #12  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:04 AM
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Hardened gears probably, but you complain of metal shards on the flywheel. Thats why I suggested what I did. KTMs are the same thing, end up a big mess after some hours. The patent I beleive involved the horizontal positioning of the starter. Some guys have been doing a "wet conversion" on the orange bikes with good luck.

Look at the Beta RR drawings. The starter engages a gear on the flywheel, just like an automotive starter, no ring and pinon type setup. There appears to be no sprague clutch like a four stroke. It runs in the oil bath with an inverted type stator, mounted to the cover like a four stroke, so all components are sealed and lubricated just like the primary and transmission. Too new for life test but it makes complete sense and seems to perform flawlessly from all accounts.

The KTM and GG designs are just afterthoughts on old case designs and will most certainly disappear when those cases are upgraded.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:21 AM
Neil E. Neil E. is offline
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A horizontal starter would certainly be better. Do you have a link to some drawings? I'm curious about how Beta did theirs. If the gears are always meshed, a sprag would be in the system somewhere. I have seen them built inside ball bearings (called backstop bearings).
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:21 AM
Appalachian Offroad Appalachian Offroad is offline
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Mine works really well so far but it's almost new, certainly works much better than the KTM design. Afriend has a 12 and it doesn't engage sometimes but I don't think he has taken it apart to look at it.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:59 AM
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Neil, to me it looks just like a simple bendix setup, not always engaged, just like a car. The starter is under the engine and enters the ignition compartment under the flywheel. This and the fact that its not dependent on gaskets and shims, pretty much solves most if not all the problems. I'll try and post a pic later.
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  #16  
Old 05-17-2013, 12:09 PM
Rider_wv Rider_wv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appalachian Offroad View Post
Mine works really well so far but it's almost new, certainly works much better than the KTM design. Afriend has a 12 and it doesn't engage sometimes but I don't think he has taken it apart to look at it.
I was going to tinker with it tonight when I change the oil. First 10 or so hours I would say it engaged 90% of the time, its just been in the last 4-5 hours it started spinning some.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:31 PM
n_green n_green is offline
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Can you buy rebuild kits for these starters? Pretty sure mine packed it in on the weekend. It's not throwing the bendix out 99% of the time even when hot and sometimes when it did engage it would stall the motor as if the battery was flat. New Li-on battery testing at 12.6v so it's not the battery.
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  #18  
Old 05-27-2013, 05:27 AM
STEVEV STEVEV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_green View Post
Can you buy rebuild kits for these starters? Pretty sure mine packed it in on the weekend. It's not throwing the bendix out 99% of the time even when hot and sometimes when it did engage it would stall the motor as if the battery was flat. New Li-on battery testing at 12.6v so it's not the battery.
It seems like mine started having issues when I went to the Li-on battery. I changed back and it worked better. As far as the KTM's, my son's '13 engages every time. Hasn't kicked out once since he got it.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:42 PM
Punk Punk is offline
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Yes the main problem is the starter not engaging . It turns it over quite good once it engages but it only engages 1/2 the time . button seems to be fine so not sure what is really up. Had a tractor that had issues and it needed to be cleaned . But this doesn't even make an attempt to engage it's frustrating . I'll check all the wires maybe there is something loose or ill fitting . So anyway thanks for all the help and ideas .
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  #20  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:14 PM
Neil E. Neil E. is offline
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Originally Posted by Punk View Post
But this doesn't even make an attempt to engage it's frustrating.
If the starter motor doesn't turn, then you have an electrical issue (fuse, connection, battery).

If the starter motor turns and you have an engagement issue, then the bendix needs to be replaced (this assumes basic alignment is correct so the gears can mesh with some freeplay).

Whenever I check my bendix, it always "cams out" correctly by hand so I have not replaced it. The system still misses (starts correctly about 75% of the time).
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