GG vs. '08 KTM

[GMP]

Here is a link to a thread on KTMTalk where pobit (Dave) also a member here rates the new '08 KTMs against his previous '06 GasGas. Dave tells it like it is with no bias. Perhaps he'll comment here as well, just thought you guys would like to read this.

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=243157&st=0

[eff]

You can't read it unless you register with the evil empire!

[GMP]

Sorry, here it is:

We raced GasGas for the last 2 years and because of the loss of the distributor and rider support, we are on 08 KTM's for next year. My son has a 08 200XCW and rides AA and I have a 08 300XCW and ride open A. The 08 KTM chassis is the best handling KTM I have every rode. In the past, the bikes were light on the front and would skip off trail trash unless valved and sprung light. This made them unstable at speed and wallow in the turns. The new chassis can use stiffer front settings and still feel plush because of the added front end weight bias. Compared to the 05 up GasGas chassis, the 08 KTM feels much like the GasGas. It feels stable and predictsablelike the GasGas until there are bumps in the trail. The 08 KTM suspension is good by KTM standards but is 5 years behind the GasGas suspension. The 08 KTM fork is full of stiction compared to the coated Marzocci forks and the valving is too stiff. Revalved, the fork goes from poor to average. A revalved Marzocci fork is the best fork I have ever rode. The only problem with the GasGas fork is the oil gets dirty and needs to be changed every couple months. On the rear, both ends need a revalve but the GasGas works over a wider range. The KTM shock is very limited in what you set it up for. If you want compliance in rocks, it will wallow at speed. If you set it up for higher speeds it will dance around in the rocks. The 08 KTM now comes with an aluminum shock body which sould help the shock run cooler and not fade like the steel body shock did. The GasGas shock is always the same hot or cold. Other notables: The brakes are strong on both bikes but the GasGas has a better feel. The KTM 200 has a narrow clutch feel while the 300 clutch feels as good as the Gasser's: Wide engagement and easy to use. Quality wise, the fit and finish is better on the KTM but GasGas reliability is outstanding with none of the issues the KTM's have. We have less than 10 hours on the 08 200 and the kick starter gears already broke. We raced GasGas for two years and never had a part fail. The last time we raced KTM's was in 05 and we had several DNF's due to brake failure, clutch slaves and masters, boil overs, and the never ending quest for decent suspension.
Motor wise, the 08 200XCW is a bit of a disappointment. Good bottom and mid then goes flat on top. Compared to the Gasser 200, it falls short on top. The new 300 KTM motor is outstanding. It will walk all over a GasGas 300. It will walk all over a 07 KTM 300 too. It feels like a 300SX. Most of my effort will be to smooth the power out and make it more useable. Hope this helps and if you have any questions, fire away. Dave

[roostafish]

Thank you for posting this. It was an excellent post. I tend to agree with the suspension comments too. My brother in law has an '07 XCW 250, and I have logged some time on it. We are similar in size and ability, and my Ohlins suspension is far better than his. I also don't like the chassis nearly as well as the Gasser.

[GMP]

I thought it was good too. Dave is a good tester, understands and knows what he's talking about. His testing has helped me improve my own bike's setup and performance.

I rode an '06 250XCW and it was terrible. Even my buddy's LTR valved 300EXC feels like crap compared to mine. I cannot understand what people honestly see in those bikes that makes them think they are superior. Even the dated but proven Husky WR250 design feels better.

IMO, as well as that of some respected tuners, until KTM gets their thumb out of their a**, admits defeat, and goes back to linkage, the GG will always be ahead. Having worked for a company of that culture for several years, I doubt it will happen soon. They will not even go back to a screw on gas cap!

Dispite the distributor issue, a well set up '07 GG is the bomb.

[roostafish]

I agree with the Husky sentiments as well. As a former KTM and Husky rider, I think the Husky is a lot better. I've ridden an '07 125WR and liked it a lot. The Gas Gas still overall is a better, more planted and comfortable package.

[jeffd]

The comments above on aluminum bodied versus steel bodied shocks doesn't sound right to me...

Steel body fades less and also doesn't foul oil as quickly.

The sachs and top quality ohlins have alloy steel shock bodies for a reason...

jeff

[GMP]

All else being equal, I would think that the alloy shock would dissipate heat more quickly, thereby keeping the oil cooler. Durability on the otherhand, would have to go to the steel shock. Perhaps its not as big an issue on a conventional shock, vs a PDS.

I'd still take the steel shock, on a GG of course.

[jeffd]

I understand the reasoning - but the real issue is with expansion of the shock body - coefficient of expansion of aluminum is much greater than alloy steel - it expands much more allowing blow-by at the piston ring when the shock gets hot. We used to replace our aluminum shock bodies with steel (on old XRs) to avoid this.

My opinion, KTM went to an aluminum shock body to drop weight and cut costs - if it had a problem with shock fade with a steel bodied shock - it isn't going to get better...

There is a reason why the higher end ohlins (gold series) and sachs shocks (oem gasgas) come with steel bodies...

jeff

[AZRickD]

The new 300 KTM motor is outstanding. It will walk all over a GasGas 300.

This doesn't concern me too much (if at all) assuming it's a matter of peak HP and not characteristics throughout the powerband. I'd be looking to de-tune (mellowize) the KTM to behave in a more controlled fashion off idle.

In the end, I don't want a "fast bike" I want a bike that is easy to go fast but works well going slow over rocks. I want a bike that doesn't tire me out and has me making corrections because the back end doesn't behave well and the front end deflects.

My Houston-GG test ride is just nine days away.

Rick