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General Discussions & Announcements General Announcements, General Questions, e.g. What bike do I buy?, etc.


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  #11  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:03 PM
AZRickD AZRickD is offline
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I rode the KTM 250 XCW TPI 2-stroke as well. See the video link —

https://youtu.be/twIK_T-gw18

The softer suspension of the XPlor forks were pretty good over chop. We had no rocks to challenge it on our six-minute test loop. I suspect that this suspension is in the ballpark for my tepid riding.

The XC bikes (both 2T and 4T) with the AirForks were defintely race firm, but reasonably compliant. They felt as firm as my rock-valved 48mm Zokes but more refined throughout the stroke ? perhaps more progressively shimmed than my tuner could achieve with my Zokes. A racer probably wouldn?t change them much. I, on the other hand, would require the AER Forks to be revalved softer.

The fuel injection was perfect across the throttle and rev range. However, the FI 2-stroke didn?t have the rip-snorting character of the XC carbed bikes. Perhaps it was tuned that way to exhibit a calmer XC-W behavior. I found the motor behavior of the TPI bike to have about as much power as my 2011 GG (which is tuned for more bottom end), except that my GG had more bottom than any of thr KTMs except for the 300s, which were in a league of their own.

The carbed bikes had a definitive hit that was disconcerting. I feel it is a flaw rather than the feature that many 2T racers seek. My GG and the KTM TPI were quite linear. The KTM was even moreso, being smooth to the point of boredom ? sneaky fast.

The 2018 KTM carby bikes were all set to factory specs. The Mikuni jetting was very good from low-mid to top, but just a little burbly off idle. So little that I think an air scew adjustment would have fixed it, if not that, then one jet leaner on the pilot jet.


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  #12  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:04 PM
sneaky98gt sneaky98gt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasser View Post
...and still is the best bike I've ever rode.
+1.

LOVE my '11 e-start EC250. Seriously can't imagine a bike being much more perfect for me.

I've ridden quite a few newer-ish bikes, KTM 250s and 300s, Beta 300RRs, YZ250x, etc. And to date, I don't think I've ridden one yet that I could fall in love with like I have my Gasser.
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2018, 02:13 PM
kdxkid kdxkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
+1.

LOVE my '11 e-start EC250. Seriously can't imagine a bike being much more perfect for me.

I've ridden quite a few newer-ish bikes, KTM 250s and 300s, Beta 300RRs, YZ250x, etc. And to date, I don't think I've ridden one yet that I could fall in love with like I have my Gasser.
Why the 250 instead of a 300?
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:34 PM
AZRickD AZRickD is offline
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They behave differently. For some, the 250 is friskier and controllable. Others want more bottom that the 300 delivers.

When riding my 250, I only wished it was a 300 about 5% of the time. That beeing said, the 300 would be my default choice next time.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:44 PM
sneaky98gt sneaky98gt is offline
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Originally Posted by kdxkid View Post
Why the 250 instead of a 300?
Of the bikes that I have personally ridden, because the 250 has more actually-noticeable advantages than actually-noticeable disadvantages.

Even though I know it's actually not on paper (or in real life), the 250 feels lighter when riding it. It changes direction more easily, and is simply easier to manipulate under my legs when riding.

Also, it has more ...."snap".... than a 300. I don't mean this as it has more "hit", because mine has virtually no "hit" at all. It just revs more easily and is more responsive with a quick fan of the clutch.

Lastly, it feels smoother. I know jetting could easily have an effect on this, but all of the 300s I've ridden were sputtery and just not smooth when not on the pipe. Plus, they've all vibrated a good bit more. My 250 is just butter smooth from idle to the rev-limiter.

On the downside, the 250s supposedly make less power and torque than the 300s. Granted it's not an equal comparison, since my bike has the RB head and carb mods done, but I've found this to be so imperceptible that it's almost not true. I haven't been on a 300 yet that had more torque than my 250. I have been on a couple have been roughly equal, and I've also been on a couple poorly jetted ones that were clearly worse. Power wise, I've drag raced many a bike from a dig thru 6th gear, and haven't come across a 300 yet that could outrun it. Virtually all of these 250 and 300 enduro bikes are completely equal in regards to flat-out power.

The one KTM 250 XC that I've ridden did seem to have just barely less torque than its 300 counterpart. But that's not to say that it still didn't have plenty, or that there was a huge difference; it had just a tiny bit less right off the bottom. In my opinion, it's just the perfect amount, in regards that it's not too little that you frequently find yourself in the way-wrong gear, but it's enough less that it encourages and rewards you for using the clutch a little bit (which will make you a better, faster rider in the long-run versus being lazier on a 300).

Don't read too much into my opinions. I haven't ridden every bike out there, and haven't ridden many at all brand new (17+) bikes. And, these differences I'm talking about are very small in magnitude, just barely noticeable at all. So the bottom line is, unless you REALLY care about these tiny tiny differences, buy whichever bike is most available and/or cheapest. For me, if they were exactly evenly priced, I'd pick the 250, for the reasons above. But that's strictly my opinion.
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  #16  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:48 PM
Cactus_Flat Cactus_Flat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRickD View Post
They behave differently. For some, the 250 is friskier and controllable. Others want more bottom that the 300 delivers.

When riding my 250, I only wished it was a 300 about 5% of the time. That beeing said, the 300 would be my default choice next time.
So 2 strokes are back in the running again for ya Rick? Those new gassers sure are tempting. If you like smooth and controllable, you might give some consideration to the Sherco 2ts as well. Very mellow characteristics, but I haven't ridden a new gasgas to compare yet. BTW moto center does have 2 demo bikes they'll let you try out, an EC250 and XC 300.

When's the surgery scheduled for?
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  #17  
Old 05-17-2018, 05:20 PM
AZRickD AZRickD is offline
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Not scheduled. Surgeon wants to do more tests.

Frankly, everytime I test ride a 4T, as enjoyable as it is, when I get back on the 2T, it feels right.

Additionally, 2Ts are in the running because the strength of the 4T (dual sport, for one) is something I can?t do. Long rides and my back don?t mix. And even if my back were dandy-ish, post-surgery, six hours on a bike does not mesh with my personalty. When I look at a weekend day, I always envision doing three or more things that day. Riding the moto. Riding the mtn bike. Going to a movie with my wife. Making a dent in the laundry/yard/garage...

I looked closely at Sherco 4T 300F moslty. They?re not quite ready for me.

Gas Gas improvements (not limited to KYB) changed the lamdscape.
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  #18  
Old 05-17-2018, 06:24 PM
Cactus_Flat Cactus_Flat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRickD View Post
Not scheduled. Surgeon wants to do more tests.

Frankly, everytime I test ride a 4T, as enjoyable as it is, when I get back on the 2T, it feels right.

Additionally, 2Ts are in the running because the strength of the 4T (dual sport, for one) is something I can?t do. Long rides and my back don?t mix. And even if my back were dandy-ish, post-surgery, six hours on a bike does not mesh with my personalty. When I look at a weekend day, I always envision doing three or more things that day. Riding the moto. Riding the mtn bike. Going to a movie with my wife. Making a dent in the laundry/yard/garage...

I looked closely at Sherco 4T 300F moslty. They?re not quite ready for me.

Gas Gas improvements (not limited to KYB) changed the lamdscape.
I'm of a similar preference to you. I'd love a big 4t back up bike to do the occasional big mileage day or maybe tag along on a baja trip, but it's just too much $$ to spend for a bike to mostly sit. I (and my wife) love phoenix for what you mention, the ability to crank out a good ride in 3-4 hours and be home with half or more of your day in tact to do other stuff. Though the summer is a mixed, and mostly negative, bag, I love being home by 10 or 11 having already ridden.

But for the shercos, I meant the 2 stroke 300. There are a few guys on them locally and when I got the chance to try one I really liked it. Though I haven't tried the new gasser yet, it would get the nod for me (theoretically of course) for having a) KYB suspension, and b) a kickstart back up

Decisions, decisions... A very recent AC unit replacement has put a hold on my new bike dreams for the time being, sadly. Maybe there will be some leftover 18 gassers hanging around when the time comes though.

Best of luck with your back.
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  #19  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:46 PM
Moto7man Moto7man is offline
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You video was very nicely done! I have my 2011 gasser and it is a great bike. You need to ride a 2018 gasser! As much as I like my 2011 the 2018 is like a newly refined 2011 in feel.
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  #20  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:22 AM
AZRickD AZRickD is offline
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Googling ? The GG site is of little help

Trying to find the specific differences between the XC, EC, and GP.
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