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  #11  
Old 11-07-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by desertgasser300 View Post
Ooh, I like that idea. Maybe I can make a deal with the cartel and watch over there drop areas while still riding trail!!

Sad but true, got harrased by a sheriff for riding on state land. Said I was wrecking the desert, meanwhile we were standing in the midst of old water bottles, backpacks, clothes and random garbage left behind by the illegals.

I do believe this is a battle that is going to be worse for our children.

Meanwhile enjoy what we have and do whatever you can to keep it(legally of course)!
Desert, I used to live in Tucson, from 79 to 89. I loved it there, I raced the ADRA series and got to ride all over the state and down in Mexico. We had some really excellent riding areas just outside of Tucson, Reddington Pass, Charleau's Gap were two of the most scenic and challenging areas. My wife and I have always wanted to retire somewhere in AZ. But I have gotten really spoiled with this riding here in AL. I started riding in the woods a lot like here in AL (KY). I enjoy the more technical, slower speeds here.

If I was to ride around Tucson now days, I would have to carry a side arm.

Here in AL we have most private riding areas or clubs that lease land from paper companys. Most of the clubs charge anywhere from $350 to $500 to join. Some like Perry Mountain MC that just put on the last Nat'l Enduro has a waiting list to be able to join. We have a couple of parks around that charge $15 or $20 a day for riding.


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  #12  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:33 AM
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I think it's time to forget the public land thing and lease/buy our own land. In the east we haven't had the BLM land to ride on like you guys out west do. Paper companies want to lease their land to cover taxes while the trees are grwoing. Some companies are open to leasing to off road guys, especially if they keep tresspassers and ATVs off of the land. NATRA near West Point, TN has 4000 acres or so and has enough trail to hold a National Enduro. CMRA near Winchester, TN rents 18,000 acres in conjunction with a hunting club. We can't ride when hunting season is open but it still is good 8 months out of the year.
Maybe leasing is better than worrying about politicians who are always changing their freaking minds.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:49 AM
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We have NOTHING legal, except sanctioned events. We still ride and ride hard, but also smart. They can make a ton of new rules but must have the $$ to enforce them. Its like being just another animal in the forest, knowing how to avoid your preditors. In time you may all be forced to be like us, unfortunately.
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  #14  
Old 11-08-2012, 02:46 PM
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the crazy part out west here, is the motorcycle riders built most of the trails that the hikers/mountain bikers/horseback people use. They want to get us off the trails the we built and maintain. The forest belongs to the public and everyone should be able to use them.

The problem comes when these rich old folks that live back east leave their fortunes to Sierra Club and other environmanglist groups that use the money to dictate how we out west should live and utilize the public lands. They have succesfully shut down most if not all public land back east and now are focused on the west. Enough is enough, go back east and stay there.

And another thing while I am ranting, I pick up more trash on the trails by the hiking crowd who are too lazy to pack it out with their sorry asses. Then there is the NIMBY (not in my back yard) folks, who move here and then complain about motorcycles or noise or whatever floats their stupid ass. If it is that bad, go back to whatever rock you crawled out from under and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

What they are succeeding in is turning many riders into outlaw riders that ride anywhere they feel like it.

Rant over...

I sure need to get out for a good long ride.
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:00 PM
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the crazy part out west here, is the motorcycle riders built most of the trails that the hikers/mountain bikers/horseback people use. They want to get us off the trails the we built and maintain. The forest belongs to the public and everyone should be able to use them.
That's called redistribution my man. More than half the people leaching off those that produce, or in this case build, and then dictating how much and when you should give.

Unfortunately the EPA extends well past public lands - my guess is that will be the hammer used to beat down those of us that like things that kick up dust and make a little noise (oh no, not a horse, but those dastardly dirt bikes).
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:34 PM
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In England, we have around 2% of unsurfaced rights of way network legally available to ride. The walking organisation called 'the ramblers association' (with it's roots in industrial era communist societies) are using their substantial resources to influence political process and close the remaining few trails to motorcyclists. Things are slightly better in Wales, and worse under the Scottish legal system. The only other options are organised practice days and actual enduro events, both of which cost approx. the same as the price of a new rear tyre, and are subject to quite stringent local planning policy restrictions.

In a wide variety of matters, there's been a noticeable change from 'live and let live' to more of a 'ban everything' attitude over the last 15 or so years in my country. Sad really for a nation that used to have a reputation for being tolerant of others.
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
the crazy part out west here, is the motorcycle riders built most of the trails that the hikers/mountain bikers/horseback people use. They want to get us off the trails the we built and maintain. The forest belongs to the public and everyone should be able to use them.

The problem comes when these rich old folks that live back east leave their fortunes to Sierra Club and other environmanglist groups that use the money to dictate how we out west should live and utilize the public lands. They have succesfully shut down most if not all public land back east and now are focused on the west. Enough is enough, go back east and stay there.

What they are succeeding in is turning many riders into outlaw riders that ride anywhere they feel like it.

Rant over...
+1 to a tee, my friend.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:34 PM
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Enjoy it while you have it my western friends, I got a bad feeling about the next four years. Riding is only part of it. Wait till some of the other pet projects get some saddle time.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:41 AM
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Where I live in Arkansas most of the timber company or any other commercially owned land has already been leased by hunters. People around here will pay big bucks and lease a huge tract of land then only use it for deer season. Unfortunately, our small bike clubs can't compete and pay enough to get and keep a lease. Also, the timber companies around here will absolutely not allow ANY form of racing, competitive event, or even an organized dual sport ride unless the lease holders have a very good/expensive insurance policy protecting the company, not the club.

As for buying land, that is always the best, but any land in Ar that would be suitable for what we do is expensive. We only have 3 clubs in Arkansas, and all have very low membership numbers. They don't take in enough money to buy very much land, even scrubby remote land away from cities.

I think the only way that we will have singletrack in the future is to seperate ourselves from the ATV crowd, at least until, and if, they ever get their act together and start acting responsibly, meaning not riding drunk, wear helmets, stop littering, and start making and maintaining their own trails, not destroying singletrack. I doubt any of the aforementioned things will happen in my lifetime. I don't think the ATVers will even begin to organize and become responsible until all the areas are closed, there is nowhere to ride, and they are forced to change how they act in order to get back some areas. In this region it seems impossible to get the ATV riders in general to do anything more than litter, destroy, and then complain when riding areas are closed.

As for the USFS, we'll have to eventually file lawsuits like the enviro groups do to force them to allow us to use what is really our land. Way I see it, we own it and any federal officials who manage public land are our employees. Regretfully, I think we'll have to resort to what seems to work: Sue!

Which brings up another question: What would we sue for? What would be our grounds if any? Could we start a nationwide legal fund using donations of money and maybe labor if there are any lawyers out there willing to volunteer some time?
What can we learn from what the enviros are doing that seems to work?

I think that we will have no choice but to somehow learn what it takes to gain and re-gain access to previously lost riding areas that are on public land.

Would it be possible to lease or buy land for riding, then allow it to be managed by wildlife or game and fish agencies? I mean could we somehow work a deal whereby we get to ride on the land, but have it legally set aside as "wilderness"?

Obviously this would be tough since most agencies think we are the devil and we are harming wildlife and land, but we know that is incorrect. Are there any tax breaks, federal funds, grants, etc available if a club aquires land then allows it to be managed by an agency? On the surface it sounds impossible due to the current bad relations with most government land managers. Sometimes the seemingly impossible turns out to be the best way. We all know that an 18" wide singletrack trail takes up very little space, can be managed for erosion easily, and wildlife thrives. If we had land that we agreed to maintain trails/parking/camping to a high standard, and allowed the enviros to get something out of it in the preservation department, could we actually work together? Again, I know this would be very hard, but timber companies do it all the time.

Someone mentioned the Ross property here in Ar. It is a huge timber farm, owned by a trust and managed for profit, but they allow the state Game and Fish commission to do timber research and experiments there, and they get a big tax break. Why couldn't we do the same thing in cooperation with state or federal managers? Yes, we are back to having to own or lease land, but we might even get some grant money from the feds. Has anyone heard of such a thing anywhere being tried or done? I think that if we could do such a thing it would mend alot of fences with at least some of the enviros and feds. Of course I understand that many of the hardcore enviro-nuts will never be happy until everything with an engine is destroyed but in any group there exists some practical thinkers.

The fact is, we and the enviros want much of the same things. We both want standing timber. We both want erosion control. We both want responsible management. I've never seen a dirt bike kill any animal. I've seen a guy hurt pretty bad from hitting a deer on a dirt bike, but the deer was fine! Jumped right up and ran off with nary a limp. Essentially, us and the enviros want wooded land preserved and properly managed. I think we have more in common than is seen currently. We may have to sue, work with land managers and enviros, or both! Often the worst enemies become best friends.

Last edited by jgas; 11-09-2012 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Thinking too hard?
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2012, 07:22 AM
swazi_matt swazi_matt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravan Monster View Post
In England, we have around 2% of unsurfaced rights of way network legally available to ride. The walking organisation called 'the ramblers association' (with it's roots in industrial era communist societies) are using their substantial resources to influence political process and close the remaining few trails to motorcyclists. Things are slightly better in Wales, and worse under the Scottish legal system. The only other options are organised practice days and actual enduro events, both of which cost approx. the same as the price of a new rear tyre, and are subject to quite stringent local planning policy restrictions.

In a wide variety of matters, there's been a noticeable change from 'live and let live' to more of a 'ban everything' attitude over the last 15 or so years in my country. Sad really for a nation that used to have a reputation for being tolerant of others.
and this is exactly why the brits do so well at the extreme events, they not going to stop until they have ridden what they paid to come ride!! :-)

I wont talk about the riding we have available (although the forestry companies dont want us on their property here)
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