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Enduro Electrical & Wiring Lighting, Ignition, Wiring, Plugs, etc.


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  #21  
Old 10-06-2020, 01:53 PM
Doc Brown Doc Brown is offline
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I follow this thread since I had my first 2018 GP. I could not solve the starter issues and bought a 2019 EC and its starter worked flawless from day one till I sold it.
On my last 2019 EC the starter worked 47 hours and gave up today. I will start an own thread for this problem.

Lets go back to the 2018 GP:

When I tried to find the problem I took the starter off and I also took the starter off my friends GP 300 2018. His bike has the known problems since day one, his never started with the e-start when the engine is cold, but it works as soon as the engine is hot. He had the CDI flashed, added thicker cables, grinded contact surfaces and so on, but nothing helped. He also changed the starter button. My starter burned so I installed his starter motor on my bike (2019 EC 300). To align the pinion inside the cover with the starter shaft I turned the pinion (20) with my finger and it had almost no resitsance, I also could turn the starter axle (16) and the bendix (12) easily.

I tried the same on his bike and could not turn the pinion (20) with my fingers. I had to insert the shaft of a disassembled starter and could turn it using some force.
Do you think that this could be the problem why the starter doesn't crank the engine? I have no clue why there's so much resistance but we will find out soon.

I will also tell him to weld the axle (16) and the pinion (17) together but first need to get the whole thing apart.



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  #22  
Old 10-08-2020, 04:01 PM
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gg3 gg3 is offline
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Got side tracked on another starter thread, have compiled it here.
Tonight I taped the bendix fully extended,put it in,put the old starter spline in & tried turning it by hand.Turns much easier than expected,not much load at all.But I am turning it very slow compared to a starter motor,so operated the kick by hand slowly.Everything turned without binding,real smooth?But as soon as I pushed the kick harder to normal operating speed,it jammed.On inspection the bendix was moving away from the pinion gear & locking crown to crown.Keep in mind the bendix cover is off so understandable.With the cover on slow rotation all good,fast rotation locked up.
With the cover off I held the bendix with a rag,pushing in & up to keep it tight against the pinion gear.Then hit the starter(don't try this kids),it turned over really well.Then locked again as I was concentrating on not getting my fingers dragged into the bendix. Video link below of hand/kicker rotation.
https://youtu.be/-QsvLt9rT1s
I have had the case off ,fully extended the bendix to check for any contact with the case & then measured case face to bendix gear & case face to ring gear (excluding gasket).Bendix seems close enough to fully engage & clear the case. In my case the starter worked fine for a long time before playing up.The gears on the pinion & bendix look in good condition & mesh together well. I think it is the pinion shaft & bendix shaft don't sit exactly parallel & close enough together. Possible wear at each end of the bendix shaft housing? As I have replaced the bendix cover with an AS3 cover it is most likely the shaft housing in the case. With bendix out & bendix cover off,& holding the starter button, the pinion shaft spins freely with no visible wobble, looks straight & true so am going to eliminate that shaft as the problem.
New OEM bendix due next week. Current one possibly not straight.
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2020, 11:04 PM
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Put an OEM new bendix in (that cost more than unicorn shit!!).No different,so it wasn't the bendix. On to the next part.....
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2020, 11:51 PM
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Gasser Nate Gasser Nate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
I follow this thread since I had my first 2018 GP. I could not solve the starter issues and bought a 2019 EC and its starter worked flawless from day one till I sold it.
On my last 2019 EC the starter worked 47 hours and gave up today. I will start an own thread for this problem.

Lets go back to the 2018 GP:

When I tried to find the problem I took the starter off and I also took the starter off my friends GP 300 2018. His bike has the known problems since day one, his never started with the e-start when the engine is cold, but it works as soon as the engine is hot. He had the CDI flashed, added thicker cables, grinded contact surfaces and so on, but nothing helped. He also changed the starter button. My starter burned so I installed his starter motor on my bike (2019 EC 300). To align the pinion inside the cover with the starter shaft I turned the pinion (20) with my finger and it had almost no resitsance, I also could turn the starter axle (16) and the bendix (12) easily.

I tried the same on his bike and could not turn the pinion (20) with my fingers. I had to insert the shaft of a disassembled starter and could turn it using some force.
Do you think that this could be the problem why the starter doesn't crank the engine? I have no clue why there's so much resistance but we will find out soon.

I will also tell him to weld the axle (16) and the pinion (17) together but first need to get the whole thing apart.

Yes definitely, the whole bendix, bevel gear and reduction shaft should turn by hand very easily. The small reduction shaft has a screw holding the bearing and gear on it, it can back out and lock the shaft to the cover, (number 26). All bearings should be smooth and turn easily. Do not accept any that are not smooth.
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2020, 10:55 AM
Doc Brown Doc Brown is offline
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Cheers Nate! Many thanks, we will check that. The difference in turning resistance between his and my bike is significant. Mine is so easy to turn and his needs quite some force, no way to turn it with the fingers.

Ist it necessary to take the ignition cover off to get the lower pinion gear and the litte shaft out?
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  #26  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:16 PM
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Gasser Nate Gasser Nate is offline
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It is easier to take it off, you can localise the heat required for its removal. I have a dowel removal tool that fits the shaft nicely as in can take a little slide hammering to get it out.
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  #27  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
Cheers Nate! Many thanks, we will check that. The difference in turning resistance between his and my bike is significant. Mine is so easy to turn and his needs quite some force, no way to turn it with the fingers.

Is it necessary to take the ignition cover off to get the lower pinion gear and the little shaft out?
Yes Doc, remove 4-5 bolts and the cover will come off. 5 min. or so job. My recollection is that you have to remove the starter gear before the pinion gear will come out (if my memory is faulty, I'm sure someone will correct me!).

Remove the circlip (#22) and then use a heat gun on the stator cover around bearing #21. Then tap the case on a solid surface - the bearing should pop out, and the starter gear can be removed. Then you can pull out the pinion and gear. If the pinion bearing (#18) needs to be replaced, heat the outside of the case and tap on a solid surface as you did for the starter bearing. Some guys have made pullers of sorts - the heat gun worked for me.

Screw #26 is known to back off and create issues; per the MotoCenter video, welding the gear to the shaft is recommended so that the gear can't spin on the shaft.

Also, even though there is a machined lip and circlip (#22) that should space the starter and pinion gears correctly, I have experienced and know of others who have found that sometimes they are too tight - then the gears don't mesh correctly. I stuck a thin punch in there and tapped the starter gear "up" toward the circlip just enough so that everything could spin smoothly by hand.

This may be your problem, and you may not need to disassemble everything btw.

Also, you may need a new stator cover gasket when you reassemble.

Have success!

Jeff
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:48 PM
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Sorry Nate, didn't see that you had already replied!
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  #29  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:52 PM
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Also Doc - it would be very interesting to hear what happens if you take your good 2019 stator cover & internals and bolt it onto the hard-starting 2018. As I've written elsewhere, I'd like to try that sometime and it would confirm that the problem is in the 2018's case/bendix/gear system if the 2019 part works well.

Jeff
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  #30  
Old 10-12-2020, 10:38 AM
Doc Brown Doc Brown is offline
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Thanks guys for all the assistance, much appreciated. I have to wait and see what the owner of the 2018 Gasser says and I will wait until he has time so that we can do it togehther.

I need to order a gasket as the 2019 gaskets are different. Unfortunately my 2019 has the same problem now but I'll report that in the other thread.
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