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Enduro Engine - 2 stroke Cylinder, Piston, Tranny, Bearings, Clutch, Pipes & Silencers, etc.


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  #11  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
Not just you. I've ridden quite a handful of 300s (KTMs of several years, Betas, Sherco, though oddly never a GG), and I still prefer my 250.

In my experiences, the 250 is more "flickable" (a.k.a. "feels" lighter), smoother, less buzzy, and has more "zip" than a 300, but in a much more linear, controllable way; it just feels less fatiguing to ride. That said, it doesn't make any less total power; I've had many drag races with buddies that have 300s, and none of them have been any significant amount faster or slower than my 250.

The 300s do seem to make just a bit more torque at the very bottom end of the rpm range. Many people like this, as it allows them to be lazier on the clutch. However, this is probably the biggest reason I like the 250 better. My 250 still makes a gracious plenty amount of low end torque, but it's just soft enough that, at a minimum, you have to cover and be ready to use the clutch at any time.

I am a HUGE proponent of learning how to properly use the clutch. Take, for example, lofting the front, or aiding your slow speed balance, or double-blipping, or pivot turning. The key to doing all those things, along with countless other enduro skills, is proper clutch control; the throttle is just secondary in those techniques. And I think that extra torque from a 300 makes the riders a little too "lazy" on the clutch, which hurts them in the long term when they don't know how to properly use it. The 250 'forces the issue' a little bit, thereby not really giving you a choice in whether or not to learn how to use it.

Of course, this is coming from my perspective of enduro / hard enduro. If all someone ever rides is doubletrack or flowy singletrack, then really knowing how to use the clutch doesn't really matter quite as much. The terrain you ride and your personal preference probably plays a bigger role in the choice as anything.
Totally agree! Well said..

Before I went down the 2T path I was on a 250F while many friends were doing the 450/500/575 big bore action. Same concepts in use.. The smaller engine with soft bottom end torque means that carrying momentum, using throttle and clutch to get the power you need when you need it, learning skills... compared to sticking it in 3rd and rolling on the throttle.

I'm no gun rider.. but I feel like I have learnt more because of it.


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Old 02-07-2019, 08:54 PM
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Totally agree! Well said..

Before I went down the 2T path I was on a 250F while many friends were doing the 450/500/575 big bore action. Same concepts in use.. The smaller engine with soft bottom end torque means that carrying momentum, using throttle and clutch to get the power you need when you need it, learning skills... compared to sticking it in 3rd and rolling on the throttle.

I'm no gun rider.. but I feel like I have learnt more because of it.
I agree with the above comments for sure. After spending 5 years on the GG 125 and transferring those skills over to a 250 2t it was a weapon for sure. But like most things once you learn proper technique, you generally keep it. So transfer those same skills over to a 300 and you have something! You would be amazed what you can make a 300 do with less work than a 250 or just a bit better than on the 250. Or just less tired at the end of a long ride/race. They are both great displacements, but anyone I know that goes 300 never returns to the 250. Even though I enjoyed all 350 hours I put on my 250, it was a stepping stone. Now on my 3rd 300. I also think age, fitness and body size play a role too.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:15 AM
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For me, coming from a 300 to a 2nd 250, the key words are rhythm and momentum.

I don't get why older people prefer the 300 when in fact it is more tiring than a 250 and less forgiving. For sure on a 250 you'll have to use the clutch more but to me that is also part of the sport and keeping control. Sportier riding means better technique/stamina and skills which eventually will lead to the 300jarvis nirvana but till then I'd rather be on a smaller displacement
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:07 AM
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I have a 2011 300 Gasser and a 94 CR 250 with a 96 cylinder. My CR is broad,smooth and fast and a beast through the power band depending on how hard you twist the throttle.It just pulls everywhere. At whiskey throttle things happen very fast with both🤪🤪🤪.Both have auto clutches and engine wise, I have no idea which one I like better.🤘🤘🤘
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:44 AM
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That is probably because the engines are very similar. When Eric Gorr mapped my cylinder for porting work he told me the GasGas 300 and 250 Cylinders were copies of the mid 90s Honda CR250 cylinder. They also share the same power valve design and parts.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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That is probably because the engines are very similar. When Eric Gorr mapped my cylinder for porting work he told me the GasGas 300 and 250 Cylinders were copies of the mid 90s Honda CR250 cylinder. They also share the same power valve design and parts.
Very cool!
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:51 AM
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That is probably because the engines are very similar. When Eric Gorr mapped my cylinder for porting work he told me the GasGas 300 and 250 Cylinders were copies of the mid 90s Honda CR250 cylinder. They also share the same power valve design and parts.
Very cool!
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Zman View Post
That is probably because the engines are very similar. When Eric Gorr mapped my cylinder for porting work he told me the GasGas 300 and 250 Cylinders were copies of the mid 90s Honda CR250 cylinder. They also share the same power valve design and parts.
Yup! When I rebuilt my '05 250 I used a Honda CR250 connecting rod and piston.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:59 AM
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Yup! When I rebuilt my '05 250 I used a Honda CR250 connecting rod and piston.
That is really interesting. I had heard about the rod but I didn?t know the piston would fit.
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  #20  
Old 02-10-2019, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GasGas View Post
I agree with the above comments for sure. After spending 5 years on the GG 125 and transferring those skills over to a 250 2t it was a weapon for sure. But like most things once you learn proper technique, you generally keep it. So transfer those same skills over to a 300 and you have something! You would be amazed what you can make a 300 do with less work than a 250 or just a bit better than on the 250. Or just less tired at the end of a long ride/race. They are both great displacements, but anyone I know that goes 300 never returns to the 250. Even though I enjoyed all 350 hours I put on my 250, it was a stepping stone. Now on my 3rd 300. I also think age, fitness and body size play a role too.
I started with a 2010 300. Then added an S3 head and tidied the ports up. Then went to a race ported 250 cylinder with a custom head insert and tighter squish. Next was a brand new 2013 250 with head work done early.. Now on a 2018 250 with head milled before first ride.

I still get to throw a leg over 300's when I want.. and I agree it does a lot of things easier than the 250.. but I don't find it as fun. Plus a 300 costs more to register, more to roll out the door, more for pistons, and you could argue may or may not wear out the drive line (sprockets, chains, tyres, etc) a bit quicker too.. depending how you ride.

It's all personal preference.. and depends a lot on what you are trying to achieve too. Don't see many 250's doing the really technical international enduros... there's a reason for it.
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