45mm Zoke performance

[BrentMartell]

Matt is a great guy and should do well for you.

GMP, I think my problem with the pistons not being correctly drilled would have been a big problem for anyone. That being said, it would have required someone with knowledge to recognize this issue. For example, my suspension guy noticed it, handed me the pistons, and I promptly grabbed a drill. I just want folks to know if they get a bike equipped like mine to look for this issue and then tune from there.

I am riding a wide variety of terrain that spotlights suspension issue's. This is what I mean: Currently our mountains are covered in 10 feet of snow so we have to ride the desert. Within our desert, 3000-6000 feet, we have wide open, sand washes, big whoops, hard pack, single track, to gnarly 1st gear rocky canyons. Clearly it is hard to make a suspension do all of this well. Mine in stock form did none of it well! 1-3 gear rocky sections was a ride of death as this bike deflected off of everything.

Just so that it is better understood I was not the only person who rode the bike the first 150 miles. I had my buddies ride it in the same sections I rode it in, spun clickers etc, and asked for feedback from their level, weight, and rider perspective. No one liked the fork action. Once the pistons were drilled we all got along a lot better with it. This brings me to my second point of commenting on the forum. The rebound stack was so far off that it created new issue's. IF I had fixed the pistons and the rebound at the same time there is a very good chance I would have been decently happy with the forks.

I don't know if my babbling will help anyone or not but if they target these two areas on a 45 zoke that feels weird to them, they may wind up very happy and have little to no expense into the whole ordeal.

OK, headed to Texas for the national. Y'all take care.

[widebear]

The reason these forks respond so well to tuning is because they start out so bad in stock form. A one eyed parrot could work on them, and there's probably a few out there that make a business doing so, and it would be considered only an improvement. I especially like how when you remove the base valve all the shims stay in the cartridge so in most cases you dont even know what Guido, who's on transfer from Marzochi's pogo stick division, in his paranoid delusions was aiming for.These forks are no improvement over the GG WP-43's of ten years ago. I should add that my Beta's zokes were valved differently, different pison too and work much better in stock form that being said they are still Velveeta.

[BrentMartell]

Originally Posted by widebear

The reason these forks respond so well to tuning is because they start out so bad in stock form. A one eyed parrot could work on them, and there's probably a few out there that do, and it would be considered only an improvement. I especially like how when you remove the base valve all the shims stay in the cartridge so in most cases you dont even know what Guido was aiming for.

Mine all fell out the first time too. Not now!

Here is what my rebound stack is currently...still too soft with .46 springs and 5wt oil.
All shims are .10
Current:22, 22, 20, 18, 12, 19, 17, 15, 12.

Stock: 22, 12, 19, 17, 15, 12

Installed another 22 and it is too slow. So I am going to experiment with a 21 and 19. I think I will try the 19 between the 20 and 18 first. I should be really close to what I need.

[bchatt]

Brent, I know this thread has got kinda long, and I don't know how different your forks are to my "07 zoke shivers (45), but I have spent a lot of time shuffling shims, oil heights etc. and have reached a point where I'm pretty happy. The thing is, I found 5wt oil to be too light and could not get any good results with it. I use 7.5wt oil at 110mm from top.

[GMP]

Yes, it is likely too light. Spectro 125/150 is a good oil for the Zokes. Either that or Honda SS7 and SS8 mixed 50/50, works out the same on the viscosity charts. I used to do this when a Honda shop was in town, made things easy. Different brand "5W" or "7W" oils are all over the map, you need to look at the viscosity.

Oil viscosity has much more effect on rebound than compression.

I think you'd be better off with a simple single stage stack. That OEM stack is different than my '07 was, both goofy though. IMO most of the problem is mid to high speed, drop the x over work on the mid section down.

[BrentMartell]

I tried 10, 7, and 7.5 wt oils. The 10 was still too fast but better of course. Since I am running a completely different stack in the base and added a mid valve I am not certain the heavier oil is good. I rode it Saturday with 5 wt and Sunday with with a blend that was close to 8.5. I just needed to speed up the compression 4 clicks but rebound was still a bit fast.

Curious of why you guys like heavier wt oils vs the standard of 5? Most suspension tuners set up for 5wt for various reasons.

[bchatt]

Well, the 7.5 is what the marzocchi manual states for "temperate" climates. I have been mixing 5 and 10 wt. have tried different brands etc but definately found 5wt felt terrible. It depends what shims you are using - I haven't doubled up on any face shims, I have removed the bleed shims that were stock on both compression and rebound, and I have progressively increased the rebound stack and slightly softened the compression. I haven't altered the midvalve float yet, but I often think about that!
I think I saw Glenns (GMP) shim stacks posted at one stage - I seem to recall he has doubled up on some of the face shims.
It sounds like you've already tried a few things - I would persevere with what you are doing, noting the changes and what does what etc, and not get too sidetracked by what other people are saying. It's such a subjective thing.

[gasser]

Originally Posted by GMP

Spectro 125/150 is a good oil for the Zokes. Either that or Honda SS7 and SS8 mixed 50/50, works out the same on the viscosity charts. Different brand "5W" or "7W" oils are all over the map, you need to look at the viscosity.

Oil viscosity has much more effect on rebound than compression.

I wouldn't know where to look for viscosity charts. Does anyone know how Amsoil susp. fluid falls on those charts?

[widebear]

Originally Posted by gasser

I wouldn't know where to look for viscosity charts. Does anyone know how Amsoil susp. fluid falls on those charts?

http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by GMP

Mine had to be re-anodized, and I'm real anal about the clamps and alignment. Love the action with proper setup but not impressed with the durability. I hope the 48s are better in this respect.

The issue is not with the quality of the hard coating - it is very good - it is that the upper wall thickness is thin combined with the 3 bolt bottom clamp with small bolts. It is difficult for even the best mechanic to properly torque the given setup.

The wall thickness issue arose when gasgas spec'ed the fork to be interchangeable with the WP fork it replaced (uses same triple clamps).

These issues should be resolved when gasgas moves to a 48mm zoke with more wall thickness on upper tube of fork. They should also make it a very, very high priority to drop the 3 bolt configuration on the bottom clamp to avoid problems - two larger bolts please.

jeff