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Enduro Electrical & Wiring Lighting, Ignition, Wiring, Plugs, etc.


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  #31  
Old 02-27-2009, 09:02 AM
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blitz11 blitz11 is offline
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It is a stretch, but it isn't inconceivable that someone made changes to the uC code, it compiled, but the code was wrong. (Remember the satellite where the unit conversion from miles to KM was wrong, and the satellite missed its target by miles (pun intended)?) This could be a sign error or something like that in the timing map.

Maybe kokusan flashed a bad batch of CDIs, and their QC process didn't catch it. Stranger things have happened. Maybe the map retards at overrev, but the map is wrong 'casue the break point is in the wrong "spot." An incorrect map would still compile. If it compiles, it would look "right." It's a stretch, but it has happened.

Also curious is the advance/retard behavior that Buzzard saw with both CDIs. Maybe this points to a bad pulse sensor which has an out of spec inductor increasing the time constant of the pulse pick up. If LR is too high, the sensor could alias at high speed, causing the apparent retardation in the ignition timing. Maybe the problem is pointing to the pulse pick-up rather than the CDI box itself.

Buzzard, can you swap pick ups? Might be a long shot, but worth a try. On second thought, did someone check the resistance on that sensor, or was that another thread?

Again, thinking out loud. Thanks for keeping this alive. It's not so much fun for Buzzard as his bike doesn't run right, but fun to try and figure it out.

blitz


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  #32  
Old 02-27-2009, 12:48 PM
buzzard buzzard is offline
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I'm going to try attaching some pictures of the cast of players.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg December 08 Arizona MG GG 038.jpg (52.1 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg December 08 Arizona MG GG 039.jpg (57.1 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg December 08 Arizona MG GG 040.jpg (56.6 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg December 08 Arizona MG GG 041.jpg (60.3 KB, 73 views)
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  #33  
Old 02-27-2009, 01:05 PM
buzzard buzzard is offline
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Hey, that worked. My bad GG CDI, black sleeve, good GG CDI, red sleeve, KTM CDI, shifter kart CDI, and my 2K2 ignition. To answer a few questions, I also have a 2K3 ignition. It is presently on the bike, with another kart CDI unit. The 2K3 is brand new, including pickup sensor. Both ignitions gave the same results with the various CDIs.


I would like to thank the site member who goes by the name RichardCranium. I purchased the good GG CDI, 2K3 ignition, and a couple of other things from him. He's great to deal with.


I'm going to blather on a bit about these pickup sensors. Notice the metal strip on the flywheel, it's raised a bit. The pickup sensor is a magnet with a coil of wire around it. When this strip of metal passes through the magnets field, a current is produced in the coil. At the moment the tail end of the strip clears the magnet (the center of the pickup), the field collapses. This field collapse is what triggers the CDI. So, one can somewhat accurately time a CDI equipped bike statically by using this point on the rotor lining up with the center of the pickup. The piston/crank need to be at 1mm BTDC (or wherever you wish to set your timing) when the tail end of this strip is at the center of the pickup. In my experiences with a timing light, this does indeed work out.
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2009, 01:20 PM
buzzard buzzard is offline
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By the way, if any of you want to tear apart and anayze any of these bad ignitions, let me know. I can get them to you.


I would like to hear from someone from Kokusan, to tell me, and all of us, what is happening here. I wonder right now if these units were bad when new, or did a semi-conductor fail? Was moisture intrusion possible? Did a UFO get too close to these units? What happened? Buzzard
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2009, 01:57 PM
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Buzzard,

Glad the bike is running.

I have one i have taken 1/2 way apart, but then i got busy, and never fully took it apart. If no one else calls them, I wouldn't mind taking the old stuff. But, i might not ever get to it, so if someone wants it, they'd trump me.

I know that Glenn is itching for another project, so he might call it, too.

I am glad your bike is back to normal.

blitz
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  #36  
Old 02-27-2009, 02:29 PM
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Every one I've had was potted, at least the GG Kokusans in the tapered/stepped case.
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  #37  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:05 AM
Neil E. Neil E. is offline
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Default stator plate timing

Bringing this old thread back to life. The bump on the flywheel triggers the CDI discharge and the flywheel is keyed to the crank. Some folks have commented that turning the stator plate changes the timing. How does turning the stator plate make the timing change?
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  #38  
Old 04-15-2017, 02:55 PM
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Well that was a rather silly question to ask. The trigger unit is bolted to the backing plate, so when the plate rotates the timing changes. The trigger point is altered relative to the crank location.

At a quick glance with all the parts mounted in the engine, the trigger unit on a 2K3 looks to be attached to the engine case, but it's not.
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  #39  
Old 04-16-2017, 02:55 PM
Zrt1200 Zrt1200 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil E. View Post
Well that was a rather silly question to ask. The trigger unit is bolted to the backing plate, so when the plate rotates the timing changes. The trigger point is altered relative to the crank location.

At a quick glance with all the parts mounted in the engine, the trigger unit on a 2K3 looks to be attached to the engine case, but it's not.
Correct. If you turn the stator Clockwise you will advance your timing. If you turn it counter clockwise you will retard your timing.

Timing is a funny thing. You want the most amount of timing you can get at a lower RPM with out detonation for a strong bottom end and then retard for High Rpm's for good top end. Our Pro stock 1000cc Arctic cat drag snowmobile running on 114 octane race fuel turning 9300 Rpm's has 32* BTDC of timing at 3000 Rpm's but only 13* BTDC of timing at 9300 Rpm's. We have advanced the engine to 40* BTDC at low RPM but the engine started and ran backwards.

My Old Yamaha IT200 had no timing curve at all. It started and stayed at 20* BTDC. That worked great for low Rpm's but left a lot on the table for top end.
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