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  #11  
Old 12-29-2007, 12:17 PM
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Only the KTM 200 has the 2K3 ignition in 08 which is really nice if you want a 200. I really wanted to see this ignition on the Gas Gas for a # of reasons for 08 but it will only come with the wimpy output of the 2K2. I would need to upgrade this if I wanted the higher output (and heavier flywheel which I like). The 250/300 KTM's come with a 2K4 I believe for the electric start. 07 KTM's should still be available somewhere for sure. Just need to do some digging. Many are also selling nice used ones so they can upgrade to the newer 08 chassis.


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  #12  
Old 12-29-2007, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
The 07 and newer KTM WP suspension is about as good as anything out there.
Based on personal test rides of various new bikes in various terrain? Keep telling yourself that, they want you too.

A hard day in the rocks and roots on stock bikes tells the real story. A good percentage of members hear have been down this road. Good enough for some? Sure, but not generally as good.

The Japaneese, who spend mega$$ to engineer grams off a bike, would have had PDS years ago if it worked as good as linkage.

Yeah, $7400 is steep. Its not official yet either. Also, perhaps there is more room to move off MSRP than before, and other details we don't know yet. After all, the guy didn't stay in business so long importing the trials bikes by making dumb marketing decisions. As far as ignition, most want the lighter 2K-2, thats why the XC and DE were created in the first place. Its a race bike after all, not a dual sporter. The 2K-2 runs the Hebo Granada light and a tail light fine, enduro legal. Spin on weights are available for tuning.

I think that an e-start 2-stroke 250 will be a deterant to as many as it is an attraction. Another component to fail thats not needed. Four strokes are another story, its needed.
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2007, 06:43 PM
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If the dollar keeps falling against the Euro, GG, KTM and others are going to have an even more difficult time selling bikes.

I agree about the e-start. KTM should have invested their engineering in adding a sixth gear.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2007, 07:48 PM
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In the end it should be close enough that the money doesn't matter. If you want the GG it should be no hardship over the slightly cheaper KTM. Factor in suspension work on the KTM and its not cheaper at all. Add guards and go.

Skidad,

Before you count on having to modify a bike you have never ridden, I suggest you ride one. Unless you have a specific need for higher power night riding lights, there is no need for the 2K-3. The GG is very smooth, and with a weight works perfect in NETRA terrain.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2007, 08:29 PM
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I totally disagree here about the e-start and it's a heated subject over at KTM Talk as well. Those that have it are loving it for sure and wouldn't give it up. It's a precursor to the FI that's coming on the 2 strokes at some point. I can think of many many times I could have used it from being so exhausted to kick the bike to being caught in such an unusual akward position there was no way too kick the bike over. If you haven't been in either of these situations then your riding to easy stuff or your just an awesome rider. You can remove the e-start or buy the XC which doesn't come with it. The 6th gear on the GG bikes is ALL the dream over in KTM world for sure even though the overall spread of the GG gearbox is no wider than the "W" model KTM. You get no gap issues in the GG gearbox like some complain about in the KTM "W" models which is really nice and allows more final drive gearing options also. There is no need for a seperate XC model really.

PDS is definately more sensitive to everything it seems in terms of setup. It also seems to effect the front end more than a linkage. It's funny, I own 2 KTM's with linkage. My 97 with the Ohlins and a 2004 625SXC. I rode an 07 250 XCFW and a Honda 250X for an entire ride this past season and felt my 10 year old bike had better suspension than both. No kidding here.

The 2K2 ignition is something I believe was kind of shoved down our throats long ago because it was something that the so called "American Market" wanted or needed it and it just stuck. KTM's included. The 2K3 ignition is a better ignition for most enduro use and seems to work just fine everywhere else in the world. Loads of people over at KTM Talk would rather have the 2K3 ignition myself included. It gives you more options for running better lights, grip heaters, etc. and is more tractable with the heavier flywheel. How many of you GG owners add a flywheel weight to your 2K2 ignition? From my short time over here it seem like allot. Give me the 2K3 please thankyou very much.

The new 08 suspension IS the best yet on a KTM but in the conditions where a GG shines it's still probably not as good stock. GG however doesn't have an answer for the KTM XC without revalving. A KTM XC handles the fast cross country stuff and the MX track just fine with it's stiffer suspension where a GG would be more wallowie.

Right now as it is they are both probably to much $$$ for me anyway with another $500 to $1,000 needed to properly outfit a new bike with all the necessry accessories and parts.


Skidad in MA
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2007, 08:30 PM
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Ud Luz,

Thelonius has decided apparently to sell his '07 300, see below.

as for KTM's '07 suspension, I don't agree that it's as good as GG's--I thought it was until I rode a GG set up for my weight. I swapped my KTM, on which I'd spent a lot of $ for suspension tuning, for the GG. the suspension wasn't the only reason, but it was a major 1.
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2007, 09:16 PM
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We would take an even lighter flywheel around here. Much easier to add if needed than to take away and the small one runs grip heaters just fine.
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  #18  
Old 12-29-2007, 09:46 PM
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Skidad,

Beleive me, we ride in stuff as nasty as NETRA here. Its no big deal to me kicking a GG 250, plus I don't stall it much at all. If I was a KTM rider I'd prefer the 8 lbs or so in weight savings and I think a lot of others would as well. In fact, if a four stroke would start in a couple kicks after being dropped there would be no need for it on those either. Talk about getting something shoved down your throat, if anything the e-start is it.

The ignition is only part of the equation, you can't compare different ignitions on different bikes with different crank masses, advance curves and porting. On the GGs, many feel the 2K-2 alone is a bit light in the greasy technical stuff, but the 2K-3 too heavy. Like Nick said you can add just enough weight in seconds if you need too, and remove it for a terrain change. The 2K-3 is used on a lot of Euro bikes because those bikes are also street legal with the associated running gear.

I think your making too many judgements here without a test ride. Rectify this ASAP.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2007, 04:04 AM
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I don't need no stinkin e-start 2 stroke.
Most serious guys that I know and compete with and race 08 KTM's went with the standard version. The weight savings and less shit to go wrong is what owning a 2 stroke racer is all about. Why complicate it. A friend who is a sales man at a local KTM dealer said the E-start versions were being out sold by the standard model and most people that did chose the e-start were new to the sport or just casual riders.
I prefer the 2k-3 for my use in Washington. I am a avid Night Racer, so I need the extra juice for lighting. With the 2 stage ignition the sun setting is far snappier on my 06 300 compared to my 04 300 with out the 2 stage ignition both with 2k-3s installed. We also ride 75% of the time in wet conditions. To each his own.
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidad View Post
GG however doesn't have an answer for the KTM XC without revalving.
The Gas Gas MC 250 w/ 50mm Marzocchi forks IS the answer.

E-start on a 2 stroke is a gimmic that just happens to sell bikes.
At the Last Man Standing race, I've seen the e-start fail on several ocassions.
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