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Enduro Electrical & Wiring Lighting, Ignition, Wiring, Plugs, etc.


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  #11  
Old 09-18-2010, 07:31 AM
Neil E. Neil E. is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMP View Post
The term "Floating" the AC ground or removing its reference to the chassis is just a way of saying "Isolating".
Any thoughts on how the estart bikes will be done? I expect a manufacturer would not isolate the DC ground.


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  #12  
Old 09-18-2010, 07:21 PM
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It could go either way. If the current bikes like the Six Days have all the Euro street gear, they have a small half wave rectifier anyway to run the DC horn and flasher for the directionals. If they just have basic lights like the XCs, they just run on AC. Either could eaisly run on DC, and this would be done with a different isolated ground stator configuration.

Its easy to tell, for those that have seen the bikes does the battery negative lead get grounded to the frame? If so its a DC gnd system with a different stator. If not, the DC ckt for the battery and starter is isolated and the rest of the system is AC.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2010, 06:02 PM
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Tp answer the questions with respect to the earths

Difference between floating and non-floating ground

The original system is a frame grounded AC system, the ground before regulator and after is common; because the system remains an AC system, this is ok. One side the generator is earthed to the frame and all components within the electrical system are also frame earthed.

When you change to a DC system, you cannot mix the earths for the AC and DC; they have to be separated.

A floating ground lifts the earth at the generator from the frame and connects it the the one side of the rectifier/regulator, the output is connected to the other input. This allows you to use the frame earth on the DC system. You have to modify the generator to achieve this, you also have to modify the bike wiring.

A non floating earth, leaves the generator intact, you only have to modify the wiring, with the AC earth still attached to the frame. This allows the engine mounted items to left unmodified. However to achieve the earth separation the earth on the DC side needs to be lifted from the frame and connected directly to the battery.

Generator output in the original AC system is limited by the use of the yellow wire, this is a tapping at a lower output (around 35 watts) than the full generator rated capacity, the white wire is a full power outlet (around 100 watts). The low power tapping is used to stop bulbs from blowing. As the tappings are at different points in the generator, a phase difference occurs in the output of the generator. A number of difference posts (on this forum and others) have confirmed it is not good to try and use both outputs and the phase imbalance causes a lower output and possible long term damage to charging components.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:07 AM
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To make use of both windings it would be interesting to try a three phase rect/reg and just use two phases. Might work, or you could design/build your own. Any idea if the TrailTech part is a phase angle control type like a three phase unit or a simple bridge and linear regulator? What also would probably work is a Trailtech part for each winding, with the outputs connected in parellel, depending on the output structure.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:25 PM
Neil E. Neil E. is online now
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Here is a portion of the wiring diagram relative to the Estart bikes. Both lighting outputs go to the regulator/rectifier. The yellow wire is there for voltage regulation. The white wire is rectified to DC.



Based on info from Glenn and John, there can be only one ground, either for the AC system OR the DC system (when using a full wave rectifier).

On an estart bike, both systems are grounded. From this we know that the voltage regulator is a halfwave type creating a DC output for battery charging. The lighting runs on AC taken from the yellow wire.

TrailTech says not to ground the battery negative when using their reg/rect unit (most likely because of bikes that use an AC ground). In order to get the maximum DC output I believe I must remove the stator ground so the AC system is floating. That should allow me to keep the DC system grounded and use the TrailTech reg/rect for full output. The yellow wire would not be used anymore.

A friend with a lot of electronics experience just stopped by. He agrees that the rectifier is half wave and cautions that using a full wave rectifier on the white wire might not be wise. Based on the simplified GG wiring diagram, he is guessing that the AC voltage on the white wire might actually be ~24 volts.

The resistance (to ground) measures 0.8 ohms on both the yellow and white wires. The yellow (assumed to be the mid-point of the windings) is probably at ~12 volts. A full wave rectifier on the white wire might actually yield ~24VDC. Before doing anything else I need to find out what voltage is on both white and yellow wires with the engine running.

In reality 24VAC through a halfwave rectifier may not be much less energy supplied than 12VAC through a fullwave rectifier.

The unknown at this time is the actual winding connections on the stator. It might make more sense to create a common at the mid-point and feed both windings into a full wave rectifier.

There is always more to learn.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2011, 10:07 PM
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The white wire should be out of phase with the yellow, and an AC potential present between the two. This has been verified in the past but on a Euro 2K-3, but should be the same. A scope would answer the question. This is why I'd be interested in seeing if a three phase(using two) rect/reg works.
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2011, 04:37 AM
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Several months down since I converted and I have a 60 watt headlight, which is run all the time the bike is running. The bulb intensity does not vary with revs, even on a fresh start up after a couple of days, the battery stays charged all the time, so the system pumps out in excess of 60 watts, because the battery is staying charged.

Photo bike with a Ricky Stator headlamp. As I use the bike on the road it is the best mod I have done so far. Flashers work like a real bike, headlight is super bright, the Ricky Stator light is well made and very bright, and guys at work comment on how bright my light is. Best of all if you have any issues at night and the engine stops you are still seen. I have also now installed an accessory socket so I run GPS etc.
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2012, 12:09 AM
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I think I followed this thread: Nope, I lost it.

When I mess with electricity, there's usually alot of cussin then a fire. Or sometimes a fire, then alot of cussin.
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:25 AM
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Old thread I know but I just did this with my 2010 and it works great. I made a .pdf write up of what all I did, I just need to find a place to upload it to haha.
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:35 AM
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I can't find a free place to upload that .pdf I made of how I did this conversion that doesn't mess up the images (google drive really ruined the pictures). Just pm or email me and I will send it if you are interested in seeing it.

Edit: I have loaded this on dropbox. It should work. I've a bunch of people ask to see it so I thought maybe this would be easier. I am not claiming it's perfect or the greatest thing ever. But if it can help anybody I am happy to share it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e93rvdmgxx...0Procedure.pdf
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Last edited by Coop; 01-13-2014 at 08:05 AM.
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