First Post: Locked up EC 200... curse of the new plastic?

[mlyle11]

I'm finally back to my garage and ready to get this thing apart. I hope it's not toasted too bad, but it does sound like the crank bolts.

Regarding the 225, that's the story I was told when I bought it. He said they put a 250 piston and jug on it at the dealer a few years back. I have all the original parts as well. They also put in a crank stuffer then. He said they didn't change the crank so it had a 200 stroke and 250 piston thus the 225. My math aint so good no more and it was plum too much cipherin fer me!

It looks like they used three gaskets between the case and jug. Spacing issues with the 250 jug? I attached a picture of the set up. I also attached a scan of the last repair from the dealer. It has the piston size, but I couldn't cross reference it anywhere.

I hope it's not the bottom end. I have a manual, but I don't trust myself to split the cases. I would on my old KDX, but this bike is too nice for me to screw up. It might be fun to try though. With this great resource behind I just might give it a try. I have rebuilt automotive engines, carbs, a few transmission here and there, but never anything where I had to split a case apart. Plus that was a LONG time ago, back when I had man hands with lots a grease under the nails!

Thanks for all the insight thus far!

[mlyle11]

According to the reciept (sorry - the attachement is hard to read). The piston that was installed at the dealer is a 7542P6634. I can't cross this piston, but I think the numbers after the P are the piston OD or bore ID. Makes sense.

66.34 MM or some such... thus at least a 250 top half.

As this is my first GG rodeo, the whole bike could be a EC250! I will check the VIN and title tonight... duh! Lot's of the part numbers in general on the bike have the code for a 250. I understand however that many of the part were interchangeable, and the factory tried to commonize or just use what ever when they ran out. I also don't know the full history on the bike. I

The Jug comes off tonight! I will try and set up a picture hosting site so you can see the good in more detail.

Have a great weekend all!

[gasgasman]

There are some #s stamped on the engine by the shift shaft.
You'll see "EC300, EC200,or EC250" mixed in.

[mlyle11]

Everything is pulled away so I can have a good go at the engine. I have a few numbers now. The head is stamped ME25 30916000, and the case (L) by the shift shaft is stamped EC20 01D110552. So it looks like a 200 bottom and 250 top. There are no numbers on the jug, though there is nice flat machined spot just aft of the carb, but it only has an "A" stamped in it. I'm excited to tear into it further! I'll post later tonight or tomorrow on what I see once the top end is off!

Thanks!

[mlyle11]

The top end came off nice. Everything looked really good. Clean piston, jug in real good shape, even the PV was very clean and working well. The gasket between the jug and case was on it's last leg, but still holding. Another season and it would have dumped coolant into the case.

In my first post I said the engine only moved about 90 degrees before it would lock up. I see what is at least the symptom of this. The rod does not move freely on the crank. The crank moves with easy, but since the rod (crank end) seems frozen, it hits the case. Of course this is with the top half off. When the top was on it would just stop with the piston in the cylinder.

Not sure what this could be now, or if I have the courage to dig any deeper. It looks like I can send the engine out to either Halls or up north to Keytime. Either one will be 400-600 bucks. I could do this for around 100 in parts assuming no major crank damage. I can get a 200CC running engine on it;t way from Cali for $450 bucks as well. Of course used engines have their own set of headaches too!

Any ideas on what has seized the rod? The lower rod bearing? The nylon spacers? Seems pretty simple from the crank view, but getting inside seems like a head ache. I have no desire to create a basket case!!!

Thanks again all!

[GMP]

Well, if you don't see the bolts holding the nylon crank stuffers backed out and hitting the rod, its obviously a seized/partially seized lower rod bearing. Being we don't know exactly what this bike is or what was done to it, its anyone's guess as to what happened. In any case its a complete tear down and crank rebuild at the minimum.

[mlyle11]

Verdict is in. The lower rod bearing is toast. I should have heard this coming, but my son was riding at the time. Also, it's been awhile since I've been listening closely to a 2T! Lesson learned. No excuses.

I was able to pull upward on the rod, which freed it up to rotate. There is no side to side play, but the up/down play is awful. I wouldn't be surprised if they are not needle bearings in the bottom of the case. There is probably 2-3mm of slop. Thus I should have known. It has been noisy since I bought it. I should have pulled the top half to check the rod just after I bought it, but riding fever had me and the boys, and we were just too excited to care about the heavy stuff... now here I sit with big repair ahead.

So the final poll is do I do this myself or take it to the dealer. If I open the case, I might as well do everything.

I trust Hall's, a Husky buddy of mine has had them do his work for years, and he's an AMA ranked hair scramble addict. The other dealer, Keytime seems good too.

If I go to the dealer, is it best to put it all back together or just take it as is?

Do I take them just the engine or the whole bike?

I was thinking just the engine, because while it's done I was going to do all the chassis bearings, brakes, and fork seals. It'll be like new when done!

I've become an official donater to the riders now! Best money spent in a long time. Thanks for all the help and comments!

Mike

[lankydoug]

Take just the engine. That will give you a chance to go through the chassis and clean repack/grease in all the linkages/bearings ect. If you have only owned the bike for 2 months or so and don't have the history of how it was taken care of this will give you piece of mind and you will be surprised at the difference in feel that a freshly serviced bike makes.

[GMP]

Your lucky you didn't suck bearing debris into the top end and trash the cyl and head. I'm still curious as to what this engine is and what exactly was done to it.

[mlyle11]

As far as I can tell, the previous owner bought a 250 top end and piston and simply installed it on the EC200 case. The con rod has made in Japan on one side and VESRAH 5001 on the other. This appears to be a CR 250 rod, which is correct per the cross over list. I'm adding a few pictures of the debacle now, plus I am linking to a video on You Tube. I expect it to go viral soon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nylLc8eX-0g

I also started a google web page to start tracking all my projects on. It will be about like this post, updated at the speed of life!
https://sites.google.com/site/parproautoresearch/home