Tubeless Tires ?

[Neil E.]

I'm happy with the tubeliss setup. The only issues have been 1) high pressure tube needs watching as it bleeds down gradually and 2) takes a lot of weight to balance. I would prefer the high pressure stem and low pressure stem to be 180* apart.

[swazi_matt]

Originally Posted by Neil E.

I'm happy with the tubeliss setup. The only issues have been 1) high pressure tube needs watching as it bleeds down gradually and 2) takes a lot of weight to balance. I would prefer the high pressure stem and low pressure stem to be 180* apart.

Interesting ... this possibly explains why my front feels like it is bouncing along on the tar, how do you go about balancing a tire?

[Fred1956]

Originally Posted by Rick

Thats...pretty bold Fred...... I like your thinking here! Tires are not cheap.... I have been on the fence about this system....seems like where I would use a soft compound (Mich XC12 S), I could get away with a (MX51 or Mich XC12M?)

I will cut a old heavy duty tube down the middle (cut out valve stem) and use it as protective liner as add protection then install a really light weight tube..
to help combat pinch flats in the rocks.

With the TuBliss system it seems like this would not be required?

Thanks

The MX51 is NOT tough enough- tried 3 of them, ripped whole knobs off on 3 of them, and then called Jeff at TuBliss for advice, at that time he recommended desert rated 6ply tires (Dunlop AT739- pricey) I discovered that the old low cost stiff as heck tires do just fine at staying together with the TuBliss and with the low pressures you can run there is no sacrifice in 'bite'. I've run the Sedona MX907HP ($70) and now have the 887IT($72) on now and working great. Heck I'd try a ChengShin C755 if I could find one

Per instructions-always check BOTH valves before each ride, I have never balanced my tires anyway. They recommend stems to be within 4 spokes of each other to prevent damage but I've never quizzed Jeff about this

BTW Jeff's customer service is as good as it gets, he & Clay went to the same school

[Rick]

Have you ever tried a Michelen M12XC or S12XC? What about MX71?

[Neil E.]

Originally Posted by swazi_matt

Interesting ... this possibly explains why my front feels like it is bouncing along on the tar, how do you go about balancing a tire?

First thing is to put the bike on a stand and check your front wheel for runout. Mine was bad and I had to re-true it. The front tire would bounce on pavement (this was before I went with the Tubeliss system).

The Tubeliss system has both stems a short distance apart (stock had the rim lock 180* from the valve stem). With both stems close, there is a fair imbalance.

You don't need to get too fussy balancing a dirt bike wheel. I clamped a piece of 5/8" ground shaft in a bench vise. Shaft horizontal (checked with a level), sticking out past the end of the bench far enough to slide the wheel over. Turn the wheel slowly in each direction and see where it stops. The heavy spot will be down; mark the top of the rim. You will have two marks, one for forward and one for backward. Between these will be your light spot that needs weight added.

You can wrap heavy plumbing solder (soild core) around the spoke and tape over it when done (probably need to put it on three adjacent spokes to get enough weight). Try more spins forward and backward, when it's close enough the wheels stops anywhere (no more definite heavy spot).

You could do it on the bike, but bearing and seal friction will prevent you from getting good results. I found that the ground shaft allowed the inner races to slide over the shaft so there was no friction loss to cause trouble.

I'm sure there are more professional ways to do the job, but I'll never go more than 80 kph so perfection isn't necessary.

[Neil E.]

As to tires I use a Michelin S12 on the rear and Michelin M12 on the front (or a Michelin MS3 Starcross on the front).

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by Fred1956

Traction- YES I get trials tire traction from a knobby without the things I disliked about a trials tire.
Feel- YES It is lighter and it can be felt, I've ran TuBliss and then bought my current bike that had HD tubes when I bought it...I'm tight (broke) so I ran the tires out and I could tell a considerable difference when I mounted TuBliss on tire change over + with the lower pressure there is a grip difference in the front as well

One issue I had when originally changing over was that you need to run 'tougher' tires- on the same course with tubes & MX51s they worked fine with tubes but with the TuBliss & MX51s the grip was so improved that I pulled knobs out of the carcass- you could stick your thumb in the hole and I ran 2 hours on that flat. Problem stopped when I moved to stiffer tires + you don't have to buy top dollar tires, I get great traction/wear from Sedona tires at much less cost

So big improvements in unsprung weight are the real catch here. Along with some improvements in traction. I haven't had any traction issues with the MX51 at lower pressures 8-12psi depending on terrain and pace. I have also managed to rip entire knobs out of the rear and tear side lugs from the fronts. Usually when running too low a pressure for the terrain. Love the tyres and the combo I'm running though. Not sure if it would be worth the effort and coin to make the change and then find a tyre I'm happy with again. I'll wait for Trev to report back

[GMP]

Jeff is awesome. I run MT16s with good results. The sidewalls break down internally though if you try and push them too long. Vee Rubber has a van at most of our races, I think Jeff Melik runs them too. Might try a set.


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[nambo-trev]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

So big improvements in unsprung weight are the real catch here. Along with some improvements in traction. I haven't had any traction issues with the MX51 at lower pressures 8-12psi depending on terrain and pace. I have also managed to rip entire knobs out of the rear and tear side lugs from the fronts. Usually when running too low a pressure for the terrain. Love the tyres and the combo I'm running though. Not sure if it would be worth the effort and coin to make the change and then find a tyre I'm happy with again. I'll wait for Trev to report back

Unsprung weight for sure would matter but how much less can they weigh than a heavy duty tube?? I had custom BST carbon fibre wheels on my rocket and that was a rediculous upgrade but I dropped almost 10lbs a wheel( and over 3Gs on them lol). I'd be more interested in the traction side. Why would they hook up better? If I can run 8lbs in the rear and 10 in the front without pinch flats why would I get better traction out of the same tire running at the same pressure? I'm confused?????

[GMP]

It's because the bead is held to the rim much more securely by the 110 psi liner, for a full 360 deg., not just at one rim lock location. The flex pattern is different as the tire does not move from the rim at low pressure. Here, in the gnarly rocks and slick stuff, a softer front that sticks and won't flat is huge. Also consider trail side repairs. If you do flat, from a tear of puncture from a small sharp rock, it's an easy fix with some plugs and your off.


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