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View Poll Results: Should the Time keeper enduro format
Keep going 11 55.00%
die 6 30.00%
Only survive on a local level 2 10.00%
Be implemented back on a national level 1 5.00%
undecided 0 0%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 02-05-2008, 12:05 PM
jeffd jeffd is offline
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Sorry for the previous "flame". As you can tell, I greatly prefer ISDE format - these used to be run exclusively in it's own off-road series here in Oregon. They still run a couple mixed in with their other XC events. I loved it and I miss it.

I have ridden one timekeeper up in washington state at shelton - it was years ago. Since I started riding ISDE format prior to this - it is what I prefer.

With ISDE format - you have to pace yourself so that when a special test rolls up - you have some "steam" to use on it.

I don't like 100 mile all out races myself - I raced a couple and, frankly, got bored. After the first few miles, the riders would spread out a little and I didn't see anyone else for quite a while - I don't like riding alone.

jeff


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  #12  
Old 02-05-2008, 02:50 PM
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We have mostly timekeepers here in ECEA (AMA rules, not Brand X like NETRA), with a few clubs mixing in a start control format occasionally. The primary reason to draw entries from the harescrambles crowd. Whats more of a draw is a closed course enduro, where its all run on private land or state land with a special "parade" permit, where the roads are closed and no reg/plate/lights are required. Whats driving this is the loss of land, and I'm afraid that eventually our events will be like a long two lap harescramble. A couple are already like this. I like the timekeepers, but I guess its what your used to or grew up with. They can help you or hurt you depending on how the resets are structured.

A lot depends on what you have to work with and the manpower. Some places, like Hancock, NY, are good for ISDE style because there is a lot of good special test terrain packed in close. Its easier to deal with than areas that have a lot of good/tight but basic trail that need section length for tests.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2008, 07:49 PM
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REVERUP REVERUP is offline
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Wow, I'm really enjoying everybody's take on this subject! Even though it has been debated around the country till everyone is blue in the face I feel I am learning something about each one of you, thanks for posting.

Also, Jeffd no need to apologize, I could tell your response came from the heart. I enjoy ISDE formats also and would trade most of todays Harescrambles for them in a heartbeat. But much like Timekeepers there is a big problem with having enough ground to put one on.

You notice I said most Harescrambles, and thats because I think bar to bar racing is also fun and takes a certain knack.

In the last 4 years in Washington we lost 2 ISDE races due to land use loss. We are now down to 1 plus the new one my club will be putting on this year.

We are doing our best to keep both formats alive and well, I just hope others don't quit trying to do the same.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2008, 08:43 PM
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gasgasman gasgasman is offline
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Our club, Trail Riders of Houston puts on two Texas State Enduros a year.

We do both formats.
The "time keeper" is in a National Forest with 90 ground miles.
The "start control" format is at our private lease with 30 ground miles.

So, as you can see demographics plays a roll in the type of format we use.

BTW, the National Enduros is not an ISDE format.
It is a "Start Control" format.

The big difference is that the ISDE rules, the time you get to the check in becomes your new "row number" and it can change as the day goes on.

Start Control—a timed checkpoint designating a starting or a release point. A point whose mileage and keytime are listed on the route sheet. A timed check immediately preceding a start control may be located without regard to the 3 mile check separation rule, but the timed check immediately following a start control must meet the 3 mile check separation rule.
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2008, 09:04 PM
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Yep,All of Washington's NMA ISDE's formats that I have been a part of have been the start control format or a modded version a check in and a check out.

The plan is, the ISDE we are putting on this year will be the ISDE format. As many in our club has voiced their opinions in the past about how such and such clubs ISDE doesn't use true ISDE rules.
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  #16  
Old 02-05-2008, 09:43 PM
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We did an ISDE qualifier back in 2002 and we used the ISDE rules.

If you are running a qualifier, it would not be smart not to use the ISDE rules.
We have to get the riders used to the ISDE rules if they plan on riding the ISDE.
Our club even used the goofy blue and red arrows.
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2008, 07:26 AM
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Now for some real confusion let one of the NETRA guys explain Brand X.

Basicallly all a Start Control format enduro is, is a timekeeper with Start Controls (knowns) as the check ins to sections or special tests. Speed averages are set up so that you will not be hot at the prior check out(unless you cut the course). You may arrive early at the Start Control, and leave when your number is up. No need for timekeeping equipment if there are no secret check ins, and you do ride with your buddies on your same minute all day as long as your close in speed.
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2008, 09:15 AM
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I think the main problems with time keepers are the amount of people you need to run it and the land availability because you need so much more than say a HS. Our CC's are easier to run and we usually have only one live check out and one or two dead checks(punch card). Where we race it is kinda hard to cut the course as it usually is the only way to go. I've never run an ISDE or WEC style event but I think I would like them from what I seen and heard about them.
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