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Enduro Engine - 2 stroke Cylinder, Piston, Tranny, Bearings, Clutch, Pipes & Silencers, etc.


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Old 06-23-2008, 12:19 AM
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Default Yes my Clutch does drag.

OK this is starting to really get me griffed & I'm not even sure that is a word.

I'm having problems kickstarting it in gear. Most threads seem to have a bunch of people claiming a particular oil fixes the issue & it is obviously an issue on some bikes.

OK history:
02 EC200. Never used to be a problem.

Starts dragging, adjust the lever & run Castrol MTX as recommended (can't get helix here in NZ). Sort of cures it.
Next try is a 0.7mm shim under the clutch pressure plate (ie: 2 shims now). The idea must be that the slave cylinder can't push far enough. This actually seems to work.

But gradually it starts dragging again.


OK so now to get scientific.
Take the clutch apart & inspect the steels. Hardly marked, no blueing, no warp as far as I can tell with a super thin feeler on glass. Frictions 2.8mm, ie new thickness. Pushrod & everything free & straight (well pretty straight, but not touching anything so not critical).

Change oil, bleed as good as a good thing & adjust so there is like absolutely no freeplay. Basket looks fine, I had ground some tiny ridges out last time, but really minimal, I’ve seen so much worse without a problem on other bikes.

Measure the throw at 1.7mm when I pull the clutch.

Right throw it back together with some Bel Ray this time (also suggestion on another thread).

Drags like a dog, well never a problem in use, just can’t kickstart it. I even tried pumping the lever a few times in case there was some air in the system.

Grrr!

OK the other thing I noticed is when I pulled the clutch lever when I had the cover off I could turn the inner basket with a socket on on of the spring bolt-heads & let the lever out till it grabbed. So far so good, but sometimes it would grab & needed a shock to release it. But I would have thought the kickstarter would do that & pulling the lever a few times.

OK so maybe the slave cylinder needs a rebuild, but it will move the pressure plate 1.7mm so I don’t think it is that at all.

So am I left with perhaps sharp tang on the steel grabbing a friction somewhere in the pack? Bead blasting? Buying a new basket for seemingly fine original ones?


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Old 06-23-2008, 07:13 PM
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Ud_luz Ud_luz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (F5) View Post
OK this is starting to really get me griffed & I'm not even sure that is a word.

I'm having problems kickstarting it in gear. SNIP..........
Clamp your clutch lever down and check your clearance all around the pressure plate. I'm wondering if you have one or more weak clutch springs and the pressure plate is not releasing cleanly. When this happens the clutch release sometimes seems erratic. Any machine shop can test the springs or just replace them since they are cheap enough.

I've had this happen before.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:57 PM
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First, all the shim for the pushrod does is change the offset or working position of the slave cylinder piston. If there was a dimmensional problem and the slave was bottoming out, it would actually break. Some Husky TEs had this problem and needed to be shimmed but the GG does not.

Make sure the clutch lever is adjusted so that the master can return completely, so it can refill completely.

In addition to what Ud_Luz suggested, I'll add to check the fingers of the plates for burrs. I had a brand new '03 with one burred friction plate, solved with 10 seconds of file work.

And the most obvious, being its an '02 is the basket notched?

Once its mechanically sound, use a 5W-40W diesel oil or light weight MC synthetic. MTX is good but BelRay sucks as far as drag in my experience.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:55 PM
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Thanks for the further ideas guys. I can measure the springs against each other in the vice with vernier callipers to compare if any are unequal. However I put the springs back in random order so I’d have had to be unlucky to get 2 bad ones together a 2nd time.

Basket isn’t that bad, maybe some starting of wear, but not bad at all. Bike hasn’t been mistreated, as I said the steels looked clean & the frictions un-worn. However it is the shock that grooves the basket I guess.

I’ll take it apart and tickle up every plate, though it seems weird that it would burr after 6 years use, I can imagine on a new part. If the master wasn’t returning then surely it would pump up like a brake, but this isn’t happening & I’ve tried the lever in several adjustments. I thought the shim idea was unlikely but I did anecdotally notice an improvement. As with all these things that isn’t scientific proof & some other change could have been the deciding factor.

Oh well I guess it’s coming apart again & I’ll retry the MTX.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:09 PM
DWreck DWreck is offline
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I'm glad to see this thread. I have been fighting this problem on my 04 300 since I bought it in 06. It had a Rekluse and no clutch lever when I bought it. I removed the Rekluse and put a clutch lever on it, have changed the fluid and bled the clutch a couple of times still no luck.

I guess I can rule out clutch springs and mis-adjusted lever after it did it before and after the Rekluse.

Time to check the plates a little closer. Thanks guys.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:50 AM
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Let us know what you find please.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:57 AM
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Check the inner basket and outter basket clearances too.. I had some contact on my 03 that I found while looking for my tight clutch. The bushings or should I say outter beariong race that is in the outter clutch basket scored the inner basket and after cleaning this up most if not all went away. I still needed new steel plates as I had a couple warped plates too. But they didnt seem to make much drag after the bushing issue was fixed..
Steve
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:20 PM
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Just been looking at the part manwell (motor 15 in manual I tried to attach but I can't shrink it to 19kb!!!, how likely was that?)

Either way are you saying that teh bearing of the outer basket was worn? Or just that it was scraping on the inner from a defect?

Mine didn't seem to have much play when I tried to wobble it, but I will pull it all out to check.
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:18 PM
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Well I found some time to pull the clutch down again in the weekend.

Ok reassess the situation.

Hmm, clutch plates when hooked out of basket seem pretty stuck to each other. Maybe this isn’t fair, the oil was cold & it’s the middle of winter here so not that warm, maybe 10 deg C in the garage (dunno what that is in Fahrenheit, maybe about 400, oh all right [googles it] 50 then, what sort of silly system doesn’t zero at freezing, ok well apart from Kelvin, but that’s different).

Anyhoo. Well maybe the steels are a bit sharp. Usually they get pressed out & one side is sharper than the other. But with wear perhaps this has gotten worse? Cue 30 min with small dremel stone followed up with wire wheel. Now sharp edges taken off the inside fingers & outer circumference edge.

I checked basket & there is a little play, but pushing it every direction & spinning the inner I couldn’t get the two to rub so that’s not it.

I’ve decided while I’m here to rattle off the basket nut & polish the inner basket slots. There are tiny marks on it that maybe the sharp steels were picking up on as they were pretty sharp. With the edges removed it shouldn’t be a problem, but I don’t want to take any chances as motivation to strip it a 3rd time is less than a bit of polishing now.

I’ll check the springs for equal tension & pressure plate for warp, then I’ll put it back together & weather willing test it this weekend.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:06 PM
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Well interim report. I spent another hour sanding the clutch inner basket with some sandpaper over a file to remove the small dig marks. No freeplay in basket, checked springs against each other & apart from a false start they seemed to be pretty equal to each other when squeezed against each other in the vice. (you had to get them horizontal or one would bend & distort). Free length was equal.

So does it work? Well bench testing is positive. In Gear it will hold the centre still while spinning the outer basket if I have the clutch in, meaning it seems free enough to kick it & there is sod all drag. However to see this you may have guessed this is without the cover. So I'll try it with some oil & warm in weekend if weather ok.
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