2012 KTM 300XC vs 2011 EC300

[Vindicator]

Originally Posted by desertgasser300

I was riding yesterday with a few heavy hitters that were in town for the weekend. The question came up to me if I had ever ridden a KTM? Keep in mind one guy is a KTM rider and the other a factory Kawa rider. I have ridden my buddies 07 KTM but did not like the way it handled or turned. They laughed and said I need to ride an '11 or '12, so I laughed and replied, I need to ride a new KTM to get the same performance as my 07' Gas Gas. Needless to say, they didnt like my response and I rode alone the rest of the day!(just kidding)

I know exactly what you mean in your post as I had the same experience in a 10' 450 XC-W. I had a 07' 300 XC-W and I got tired of headshakes and poor shock performance even after doing some work on suspension and shock.
I rode my buddie's 450 and although there was a big improvement compared to a 07' my 11' 300EC is still superior in handling, braking and suspension...and cheaper than a KTM. No way I'm going back !

[Vindicator]

Originally Posted by KTMSwade

that is a 2011 XC (black side panels, PDS on new frame for 11' which changed to linkage in 12')

When I had my 09 300XCW I hated the engine...just didnt run right down low with a pretty large hit if jetted cleanly (lots of guys jet rich to knock the hit down) whereas the 09 300EC i spent a day on was perfect. In fact, I told quite a few on KTMTalk that the 300 GG engine is what KTM should be shooting for. just a great, great engine and handled extremely well also

I remember you from KTM Talk, welcome on board ! Collecting intel for a new ride ?

[LAWMAN]

same here, I had an '07 KTM that I just could not get along with after spending a bucket of time & $ on it. I rode a used '07 Gas Gas & that was that--after 14 Ktm/Pentons, I think it was, + numerous others.

[shark4465]

i'm making the switch also after years on ktm and wasting tons of $ on them i also 05 yz250 set up for offroad handles great

[KTMSwade]

Originally Posted by Vindicator

I remember you from KTM Talk, welcome on board ! Collecting intel for a new ride ?

Oh eventually I will. Had a tough stretch the last year and am bikeless for now (last bike was a enduro converted 11' SX250). The 12' GG is just sooo ridiculously nice, so it is a pretty good chance once we get back on our feet i will save for a 250EC Race (I want the Ohlins shock)

[dualmike]

samething for me, No way I'm going back on KTM

[thumperrider1]

Wade i think you will really enjoy it. Ive built a ton of bikes the past few years, like you, and really liked the 2011 gg 250 sixdays. Waiting on a 12 250 race now.

[mlbco]

There are certainly many things to like about the GG (I have an '11 300 6-days) but it's far from perfect and in my mind not a clear winner over a KTM, it really depends on what you're looking for. Skill level, riding style, and type of riding will factor into which bike makes more sense for each potential new GG owner. These are the factors that I think apply (having owned 5 KTMs and one Gas Gas):

KTM:
1) Better components (brake lever, shift lever, chain guide, kickstand, etc..)
2) Better quality of construction
3) Set-up suits a wider range of conditions than GG (i.e. suspension, motor, and carburetion of KTM seems to work reasonably well most anywhere or can be easily tuned to do so.)
4) Wider range of accessories and more vendors

Gas Gas:
1) Better handling
2) More powerful engine
3) Costs less

The biggest frustrations I've had with the Gas Gas so far are:
1) Awful suspension set up for riding in hard pack rocky terrain. Needs re-valve right out of the crate! No amount of clicker adjustment could fix this problem (I'm a 50 y.o. B rider, your experience may vary!)
2) I spent a lot of time fiddling with jetting and powervalve adjustment to tame the "hit" of the very powerful GG motor.
3) Gas mileage is lower than any comparable 2-stroke I've owned (15%-20% lower than my 2007 KTM 300). You'll need a large gas tank almost immediately.
4) Strange bolt sizes and generally low quality fastener hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I love my bike now, but I've already spent $1700 and 9 months of tuning to finally get it to the point where I can honestly say this! I have no regrets in buying the GG, I just wish it were set up better from the factory and that there was some way to easily trade power for fuel economy.

Steve

[AZRickD]

Much of that should be thankfully obsolete for 2012.

When I got my 2005 EC250's RB head and carb mod, my jetting went down one or two sizes and my spread from Phoenix in the "winter" and Flagstaff (9K feet) in the summer time got pretty narrow. 172/42 for Phx and 168/38 for Flag with the mods. I could probably go leaner, but I like the motor's behavior when it's just a little fat.

Previously it was 175/45 and 162/38. It would burble a bit at 165.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by mlbco

There are certainly many things to like about the GG (I have an '11 300 6-days) but it's far from perfect and in my mind not a clear winner over a KTM, it really depends on what you're looking for. Skill level, riding style, and type of riding will factor into which bike makes more sense for each potential new GG owner. These are the factors that I think apply (having owned 5 KTMs and one Gas Gas):

KTM:
1) Better components (brake lever, shift lever, chain guide, kickstand, etc..)
2) Better quality of construction
3) Set-up suits a wider range of conditions than GG (i.e. suspension, motor, and carburetion of KTM seems to work reasonably well most anywhere or can be easily tuned to do so.)
4) Wider range of accessories and more vendors

Gas Gas:
1) Better handling
2) More powerful engine
3) Costs less

The biggest frustrations I've had with the Gas Gas so far are:
1) Awful suspension set up for riding in hard pack rocky terrain. Needs re-valve right out of the crate! No amount of clicker adjustment could fix this problem (I'm a 50 y.o. B rider, your experience may vary!)
2) I spent a lot of time fiddling with jetting and powervalve adjustment to tame the "hit" of the very powerful GG motor.
3) Gas mileage is lower than any comparable 2-stroke I've owned (15%-20% lower than my 2007 KTM 300). You'll need a large gas tank almost immediately.
4) Strange bolt sizes and generally low quality fastener hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I love my bike now, but I've already spent $1700 and 9 months of tuning to finally get it to the point where I can honestly say this! I have no regrets in buying the GG, I just wish it were set up better from the factory and that there was some way to easily trade power for fuel economy.

Steve

The KTM does have a better fit and finish to a certain extent. Standardised fasteners for sure! I have seen some pretty nice KTM/Berg setups and some absolute shockers too. Alot of it is in your dealer and pre delivery. Ie jetting, quirks, yada yada yaa. Alot of the big GG dealers in Aus will trim back the rear brake mc bolt, change the jetting, make sure the pv is adjusted, and varius other small things before handing it over.

KTM has the benefit of running the same bikes for many years now, in quantity. Lots of people with lots of info makes everything that little less painful.

GG tends to change components from year to year, but in general they are moving forward and I only expect the offerings from them to get better and better.

Its strange that so many keep saying the GG has the stronger engine. When I bought a GG i was under the impression it had the softer and smoother donk and coming from a 250F thats what I wanted. Now I love the extra unf!!

Regardless of any brand of 2 stroke I will be planning on measuring squish and setting port timing. Probably before even riding it. It seems to be the key in making an engine work as it should. I can easily get a 100km from my 9.5L and I don't hold back on the throttle.