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General Discussions & Announcements General Announcements, General Questions, e.g. What bike do I buy?, etc. |
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#1
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Let me know if I'm waaay off on any of this.
I know there are others with more knowledge than myself. I'm smart enough to know I'm not that smart.
I have attempted to simplify (if that is possible) the relation between EC, XC, MC, SE and FSE for people. Before I post this to the Gas Gas wiki page, I want to run it past all of you first. Let's edit it here before I plaster it on the wiki page. Edited to reflect changes in thread. 12/22/07 Quote:
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Todd A ------- 2003 EC/O 200 Last edited by barkeater; 12-22-2007 at 10:29 AM. |
#2
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The write-up is very GGNA-centric and not completely accurate...
The enduro bikes were first imported into the U.S. by Dale Malasek of GasGas USA - with parts handled by Rising Sun Imports... Today -> Dale Malasek is importing the enduro bikes again with parts being handled by gofasters... jeff |
#3
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That's what I wanted! Thank you.
I came to Gas Gas in 2001 as a dealer, during GGNA, and left when Dixie took over, so most of my knowledge lies in that time period. Editing to reflect that. Thanks Jeff
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Todd A ------- 2003 EC/O 200 |
#4
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You did a very nice summary on the confusing history.
Here are some suggestions that you may want to incorporate. Quote:
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Matt Current: 2009 Yamaha FZ1 Previous: 2001 GasGas TXT280, 2001 GasGas XC250, 2004 KTM 200EXC, 2007 GasGas EC250, 2007 Husqvarna SM610, 2008 Husqvarna WB165 |
#5
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good writeup.
The fourstrokes are actually EC's too, called EC450 FSE/FSR. FSE = Four Stroke Engine |
#6
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Thanks guys! Our collective knowledge is much better than my limited brain capacity.
I will be editing all these recommendations into the document and posting it to the wikipedia page soon.
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Todd A ------- 2003 EC/O 200 |
#7
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In earlier years (99?), Both an EC and an XC model were imported and the differences between them was greater than most note today. The EC was a euro street legal trail oriented bike with a counterbalancer installed in the motor and a heavier ignition. - this is the hump that used to exist in the cases. It still had marzocchi conventional forks and a less expensive ohlins shock. (similar to what we see in the 450 pampera today). Note that during this time period, the difference in exhaust was that a messico pipe was installed on the EC models (same pipe was used on the MC and EC during these years...).
In 2000 forward, the difference between a european EC and an XC wasn't as great. GasGas, like the rest of the industry, went away from conventional forks and installed the better ohlins shock standard. They went away from the counterbalancer to achieve smoothness in the motor and installed a concentric weight on the crankshaft instead. This achieved lower vibration, relative to a non-counterbalanced motor, and decreased weight. But,in a way, they targeted the model towards racing versus being an extremely effective trailbike (you could view the original marzocchi forked ec with counterbalanced motor being like a 2 stroke XR...). After gasgas switched to 43mm usd forks on the ECs in 2000 - an XC actually costs less to produce than an EC (cheaper ignition, no lights, less wiring, etc.). An FMF fatty pipe, although more durable and providing more low end power actually costs less than the messico that it replaced (and didn't perform as well either...). Note that a catalytic converter etc was never used during the years in question. GGNA charged higher prices for bike "customization" & parts and GasGas motors america dropped both bike and parts prices when they took over importation. Given basic economics, the drop in prices should have led to higher sales. The president of GasGas Motors America, Juan Romero, had financial and legal expertise but initially lacked motorcycle industry experience. He was brought in to turn around the american market financially given that GGNA wasn't able to live up to financial obligations (a nice way of saying they didn't pay their bills to gasgas corporate). GG Motors America had large expenditures to set up warehousing & hire a full staff in florida. During this same period - the dollar was falling more than 30% relative to the euro - decreasing profit back to GasGas Corporate... Also, the new 450 4 stroke, was having some serious "teething problems"... All of this led to the budget for effective advertising and promotion (sponsoring a few top riders, etc.) being very tight and the sales volume fell. A few talented and enthusiastic sales reps became disillusioned and left during this period, which didn't help matters... In 2006, Coller capital management acquired 36% equity in gasgas and put in place new management, streamlined costs etc. In the process, gasgas eliminated their direct rep in florida and closed the warehouse, etc. and went with Dixie Sales, who was also importing husaberg. Dixie sales lost import rights for husaberg this year. That along with the motorcycle division being less profitable than others in their portfolio (they also distribute everything from lawn mowers to philips TVs) drove them to get out of the motorcycle business completely. That leads us to today - where GasGas USA picked up enduro bike importation into the u.s. and Gofasters is handling parts imports, distribution, and marketing. Other technical notes : The higher compression MC head was only used on the xc250 model as no equivalent part is available for other models - 200 and 300, etc... jeff Last edited by jeffd; 12-22-2007 at 01:25 PM. |
#8
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'98 was the last year for the CB. The '99s had the full round crank weight in place of the gear, and the cranks were said to be balanced very well. In '00 you could get either an EC or an XC, but ECs were fewer. In '01, only XCs were available. The round crank weight was changed to an eccentric for even better balance and less vibration. In '03 when GGMA started up, the full EC was available at first, shortly followed by the new DE.
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#9
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Hey Glenn,
I think that in '99 the euro ECs still had counterbalancers and GGNA imported a few of these... The local bike "newspaper" had a test on both bikes that year (xc and ec...). This led me to wanting a counter-balanced EC... jeff |
#10
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Also, I don't think all this stuff belongs up on a page on wikipedia... Putting on my marketing hat for gasgas, we should focus on what they offer today and the benefits, etc. A new, prospective buyer, shouldn't be exposed to all the change of importation over the years, etc...
I think we should break this up into the evolution of the bikes, here in the U.S. and elsewhere. And then a seperate article on the importation of gasgas in the u.s., etc.. (although both are somewhat inter-twined...) I have wiki software up and running so that all can contribute to this website - I think the stuff going up on wikipedia should be something that the guy at gasgas corp marketing would put up there today.... jeff |
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