Lets keep the time Keeper going people!

[REVERUP]

All right GasGasMan get out that lawn chair and hold on!

What is your opinion on keeping Time keeper enduros alive and well, and why you feel the way you do.

Here is my 2 cents on this much debated issue:
Why not keep it going at the National and local levels. There are National Enduro Champions from years gone by in the record books and now that the format has been changed to ISDE style rules and to keep adding records to that list is wrong IMHO, they might as well add an asterisk next to the name of racer who is the champ from now on.

If your club, the AMA or what ever association wants to add a ISDE formated National or local race or series, DO IT! It only benefits the racers and off road motorcycle industry. Don't take away one and replace with another form of racing. I know land issues are becoming a problem to put on long mileage events as in the past but there are still plenty of areas to hold a series across this country.

Many racers now days would rather not think while they ride just react and I do understand this, but that is part of what makes the timekeeper tough, even with a computer. As the day rolls on and you get more fatigued your brain usually also loses some of its sharpness resulting in mistakes, or bad judgment of the rules. So yes in the end as some argue the fastest racer may not win, but I'll tell you what, the racer with the best over all endurance, most prepared, and a guy thats no slouch on a dirt bike is gonna win.

[jeffd]

Off road motorcycling is declining as it is. There is a reason the AMA is going away from timekeeper enduros - it is not easy for a guy with an MX bike to come out and just ride one of these. With a computer -there isn't much thought needed anyway, so all this talk about "thinking man's game" doesn't hold alot of water...

I much prefer an ISDE format - you ride with your friends all day - you go at a good clip most of the day - but don't have to go at an unsafe speed, and "go fast" on the special tests. It is very clear, the fastest and most consistent rider wins.

The u.s. is the only region of the world that uses the rally format for enduros, I hope it dies a quick death and wish it would move to ISDE format. But, unfortunately, with the popularity of the GNCC series - it will be a hare scrambles format that wins.

I don't think the question is whether the timekeeper enduro should die. It has terminal cancer and will die soon. The longer you try to hold on to it - the more you pull the whole sport of off-road motorcyle riding down with it.

jeff

[REVERUP]

Originally Posted by jeffd

I don't think the question is whether the timekeeper enduro should die. It has terminal cancer and will die soon. The longer you try to hold on to it - the more you pull the whole sport of off-road motorcyle riding down with it.

jeff

Wow thats a pretty imminent outlook. I disagree, but thanks for taking the time to voice your opinion.

Don't get me wrong I love the ISDE format and believe it can only help improve U.S. six days riders who compete with the World. But I don't believe there isn't room or interest for Time Keepers anymore, let alone believe that a computer does all your thinking for you. Even if it did, the pace that these modern Timekeepers are held at these days makes it very difficult to maintain the speed average wile negotiating the terrain and reading a little screen on your bouncing bike. There is an art to this style of racing IMO.

We have had a resurgence of interest in our local enduro series here and people have come here from all over the west just to check em out. States as far away as, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, California to name a few. Our attendance has grown steadily over the past 5 seasons with local hero's like Jason Dahners and Paul Neff competing regularly, and non enduro guys like Chris Blais and Jonah street coming to check em out in the not so distant past.

[Boomhauer]

Reverup,

This was debated last year between myself a few others and even our resident Enduro Crack Head Bandit 9.

I am the Chairman for the first Texas State Enduro race scheduled to be held on February 24th. I have no option to run a Traditional time keeper because our lease property is being mined for sand & gravel and in Texas you have to have a minimum of 50 miles to have the time keeper event and I don't have that. But what I do have is some sick & nasty sections that will leave you asking for more.

With that being said let me take a moment of your time to talk about the differences between the two from a Chairmans/Workers point of view & a racers point of view.

Time keepers are great as long as nobody bitches about missing a turn or a check. I have seen it time & time again while racing and helping with a few events to where the AA rider was riding so damn fast and blew the turn & ran off course and got lost only to come back & protest that section because he was riding fast and missed the turn. I guess it was the courses fault that he was riding at mach speed with his head tucked down and missed the turn. Myself I know what goes into putting on an event first hand. Between myself and one other newbie we have laid and cut new trail for the past 3 months every weekend rain or shine. I for one doubt that I will ever put on another event because nobody really cares anymore in my opinion.
The non time keepers keep the bitching down to a bare minimum. You don't need that many workers for checks. There are only test sections & a transition section to the next Start Control. Yes granted it does kind of suck but a lot of the folks I started riding with did not want to pay $500 for a computer. The non time keepers attract a lot of new folks to the enduro scene and in the future will hopefully boost our sport once again.

Me I really don't care as I just want to race & ride and have a good time.

[REVERUP]

I figured this topic had already been discussed here in depth in late 2006 when the National format was changed, but was looking for more feedback as our 2 series up here are thinking about possible changes in the future. Not in 2008 but maybe 2009.
Comp. license holders got a extensive survey and the results were discussed at last nights awards banquet. Possibility's are adding ISDE events to our Timekeeper enduro series, ISDE formats are currently a part of our off road series. Dropping Timekeepers, or leaving the series the way it is.

I think thats great you stepped up and are putting on any event you can in the area you have to use,and it sounds like a fun time. I do think that there is an upside to all the work, for every fricken complainer there is 100 satisfied and very thankful friends.

I too have a pretty extensive knowledge of how these events work as I have many, many hours helping set up and run these events. Many times as the trail bosses right hand man. From mileaging to trail work to checkpoint work etc. etc. I also have extensive experience competing in them, with a few local class championships to show for it. BRAG! BRAG!

Up here, if you miss a course turn your s.o.l. unless of course everyone is missing it! The only time a protest is in order is if there is a rule violation, mileage is off, clock etc..

In the end what ever happens, happens. like you say I'm gonna go ride and have fun at what ever event a club is willing to put on for me and Joe public.

[hudson_hollow]

I prefer the new format, but for nostalgic reasons, would like to see the time keepers remain. Even with computers, it is still a game of strategy. Anyone who says different never really knew how to play the game. Strangely, I prefer the new format because I don't have to think as much and my son prefers the old format.

[REVERUP]

Cool! Thanks for the input.
So are there still clubs holding Time keepers in your area?
Just curious.

Roscoe

[Bandit9]

People will still get lost/miss turns. Format doesn't matter. Whoever is putting up arrows is what matters. Bobbitt got lost in the first National this year. Last year he got lost in Mich and it cost him the win. I got lost in every Enduro I have rode. It is like slower riders in your way, it's part of the game.

Majority rules. Run whatever style you want. BJEC is all Timekeepers and SERA is still 80% Timekeeper. The Start Control format isn't horrible, it just isn't nearly as fun as Timekeeping.

I'm sick of this discussion.

Excuse me, I have to go Mardis Gras now....

[cladoo]

I used to ride AMA Enduros in MN back in the the late 80's and early 90's and I miss them. They were a challenge, you had to think , I never used a computer though. We have two types of races here in Alberta, Cross Country and Hare Scrambles. I prefer the CC's because you are riding the course for the first time so you have to keep you eyes peeled for the ribbon. Hare Scrambles are okay and they are the most popular but it is kinda like a huge motocross in the fact that you get to do a warm up lap and you get to ride over the same course for 2 1/2 hours. I think you need more skill to race CC's. The plus side of our HS's is that they are not like a MX track but a small CC course. Both events race over very challenging terrain with lots of technical skills needed.

[joey11]

I like timekeepers, cause it gives a slow guy like me a chance at a good finish. For anyone who agrees, and for those that are not sure, come and check out our new series. ACES, and see for yourself. It will be some of the best singletrack Southern Ohio has to offer, and maybe some trickery thrown in to keep you honest. Check out the website. aces-races.com First race is Feb. 24th. It would be great to see some of you there. The only one that's not a timekeeper will be NewStaightsville, which is a National this year.