GG, Sherco, & Ossa are missing tne boat!

[gasser]

KTM is almost there but not quite. While the other Euro bike builders have been trying to make trials bikes into beginner enduro bikes KTM took the approach of starting with an enduro bike and downsizing and detuning it. We have 4 bikes here, 3 which are very much alike (2stroke Pamrera, X-Ride, and the Explorer) and one quite different (the Freeride). The only overall objective I've seen in print for these bikes is to go where other bikes can't. Rokon built a bike for that purpose years ago and we all know what a huge segment of the bike market that approach got them. So was the object to build a trials bike that could be taken deep into the woods? That concept was tried nearly 50 years ago - remember the Bultaco Alpina. There's one trials bike that's been making large tank and seat conversions for their models for years but I've never seen one in the woods. Let's face it - trials is not popular here and only popular in Europe as a spectator sport. I know trials bikes are great to cross train on and many of us here have one (mine is a GG jtr270) but people aren't going to spend 7-9,000 dollars for a new one unless they compete in trials.
Was the overall objective a more prefect play bike? If so all 4 are way off the mark. First all are way too expensive for a "play bike" and all but the Ktm are way too fragile to be ridden in rough terrain at trail speeds. Yes the ones built on trials frames are about 35 pounds lighter than the Freeride but there is cost in durability to be paid for those weight savings. The "modified" trials bikes also pay a price in fun and usability by using trials gearing. We've all gotten used to our dirt bikes having 5 or 6 gears so only having 2 (or maybe 3) that are usable 90% of the time just won't cut it. Lastly all playbikes are going to electric start so bikes that don't have it will be a sales dud. The KTM Freeride is electric start so is it the perfect play bike? Not quite. Lets look at one more purpose for these bikes. There is a large number of dirt bikers that would spend 7-9,000 dollars for a fully capable woods bike that was scaled down somewhat in size and weight. Now before everyone of you 6 foot 220 pound guys disagree with me go back to your posts on this website complaining about gassers being 15 pounds heavier than a KTM. You weigh as much as your bike and you're complaining. Think how your wife or teenage son feels when they get on a bike that weighs nearly twice what they do and they can't reach the ground flat footed like you can. This is an untapped market. No it's not a huge market that will be bigger than all others but it is much larger market than trials bikes and more importantly it is a market that will kindle brand loyalty at least while that maket is cornered.
Has KTM cornered that market with the new 2014 KTM FreeRide 250R? Not quite. It is 2 inches shorter in wheelbase and seat height, and 18 pounds lighter than the electric start 250exc but the tank holds less than 2 gallons. Biggest draw back I see is the seat height at 36 inches. KTM could have made this bike much lower (it has a ground clearance of 15 inches). Going one inch lower would imo dramatically increase sales.
KTM is 1 inch away from the next holy grail in dirt bike sales. Let's hope GasGas, Sherco, and Beta wake up soon before they get left out in the cold.

[flybars]

At 5' 6" I totally agree. Beta is the shortest enduro and pretty light in it's class. So I ordered a '14 300 rr and am having Ltr lower it 1.5inches as we speak. I might have to buy a link skid, but to me being able to touch the ground is very important.
I've always thought there could be a nitch for a lower bike.

[rosco]

I would have to go with the Sherco X-ride if I was going to pick a play bike. This bike is light, has plush suspension, has a nice low seat height and comfortable, and has a nice heavy skid plate. Sure it could use some improvements but overall it is a really fun bike. Myself I wouldn't want elec. start on a play bike but I'm sure a lot of others would.

[roostafish]

Plenty of good, used Honda XR 200's out there. I nearly pulled the trigger on a nice XR 185 last week, but I had no idea what I'd do with it. Nice and cheap doesn't mean I'd use it.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[gasser]

Originally Posted by rosco

I would have to go with the Sherco X-ride if I was going to pick a play bike. This bike is light, has plush suspension, has a nice low seat height and comfortable, and has a nice heavy skid plate. Sure it could use some improvements but overall it is a really fun bike. Myself I wouldn't want elec. start on a play bike but I'm sure a lot of others would.

The X-Ride and the 2stroke Pamperas have one huge thing going for them for market sales - they are I believe street legal in most states. That really increases the number of sales because it increases the usage each bike sold will get and thereby the practical value of this large purchase. The X-ride is a nice bike and will probably sell well in countries where young folks buy motorcycles as their first form of legal transportation. That's not the case here in the U.S. In fact the trend has gone in the opposite direction - fewer teenagers seem to be riding dirt worthy street legal motorcycles today that when we were teenagers.
I have ridden the X-Ride and liked it a lot. It will be great for some people but that's the problem - "some people". I believe the number of people willing to buy this bike new is somewhat small. I envision most being purchased by retirees to hang on the backs of their RVs and take exploring. It is perfect for that task and those people have the cash to spend.
What I'm trying to say is a bike could be built that overlaps a lot of markets and could become a sales leader here in the U.S. The key is overlapping markets. The markets I'm talking about are the street legal dirt bike market, the play bike market, and the lower seat market, the enduro market, and the woods bike market.
The "holy grail" as I envision it will be less than 56 inches in wheelbase, 35 inches in unladen seat height, 205 pounds in weight, electric start, street legal, and slightly cheaper than the full size woods bikes. The 2014 Freeride 250 is not street legal in most stares and seat height is 36 inches so I don't think it will do that well here in the U.S. even if KTM does decide to bring it in. GasGas, Sherco, and Beta still have a year or two to get the right (let's call it) "everthing" bike to market but time is running out.

[Hawkeye]

I like riding my GG 280 TXT, but not for very long before the back gives out. I'm intrigued by what Beta's done with an optional long ride kit with a taller seat and larger tank. Sort of a convertible X-ride approach, so you get more than just a trials bike. Seems like another trials manufacturer introduced this kit idea besides Beta, maybe Scorpa?

The only other weird issue when riding a trials bike is the shifter placement, which is much higher and farther away from the peg. I've seen guys get used to it (better than I have) and can really rip along with enduro bikes on normal trails.

[ACR Tom]

I have to chime in on this topic , I have a 200 gasgas endure and 2 gas gas 300 txt and an xr250 play bike . The reason I bought the new X Ride is because it when I saw it at the tenn trials world round I knew I wanted it. So I called Scott at Moto Connection since he had a demo and we did the deal . BUT the real reason was because Barbara is my real bike connection . New curtains and some tile on the bathroom floor , presto a cool new bike in the bike room ! So now my report back to all of you is this is the most fun trail bike I have ever had ! great fuel milage light weight nice trial/ trail bike cant wait to take it in the snow or on a nasty fall rock / ledge/ go anywere ride with a seat . I have a nice hillclimb that my trials bikes excel at but the X Ride did awesome at 2 , it is not trials like because of its size but at speed on a trail it is so easy to throw around . I am 0ver 6 feet tall so the low seat is not that big deal but it sure does move easy n best of all it has a seat . If you want to trail ride n you are shorter this bike is a winner . If you can afford a X Ride buy one you will not regret it . Also it is street legal

[Beta Steve]

My best riding partner has an X Ride, well over a thousand miles on it, and absolutely loves it. In spite of all it's flaws. If you have or want one check over on the Sherco forum as some of the problems really need to be fixed before the first ride. And others, well it depends on how much you can put up with when spending as much as they cost. Realistically, they should either have used a few much better quality important parts, or cost a couple thousand less.
Maybe next year.
Meanwhile, any of the major trials bike companies, GasGas, Sherco, or Beta, could easily build the bike we are talking about, but obviously don't think enough will sell to warrant the investment. With the world economy the way it is I'm truly surprised as many new bikes sell as they do, from any manufacturer...

[desertgasser300]

I gotta say Gasser, you rarely post but when you do.....Bam!

Didn't GasGas have the Randonne? Some Chinese 4T motor in it or something like it??

P.S. you have yet to post about your CO trip? Still waiting to hear about it.