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Enduro Engine - 2 stroke Cylinder, Piston, Tranny, Bearings, Clutch, Pipes & Silencers, etc.


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  #21  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:26 PM
mswilkes mswilkes is offline
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Originally Posted by jostby View Post
if you have spark then the problem isn't the kill switch wires (they kill the spark ) and won't be any other wire issues either. Keyway is a good clue it isn't a timing issue.
The only other thing is fuel/compression.

Is the plug getting wet after you have been trying to start it? Not wet = no fuel.
If the plug isn't wet try laying the bike on its side until fuel dribbles from the overflow then try to start it.

Next is to check the rings to see if they have stuck. My kid burned his rings (polite way to say he melted things) and the bike still felt like it had compression when trying to start it but wouldn't even pop.
10-4, one question though. If the ring were stuck then I would not be able to turn the engine from the flywheel by hand right? Also, if this helps, my bike pops after a few kick, and the plug is wet.


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  #22  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:14 PM
jostby jostby is offline
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if the piston sticks to the cylinder you won't be able to turn it. If the rings stick to the piston it may still be possible to turn it over depending on how much damage has been done. My kids bike felt fine.

If the bike pops but doesn't start I wonder if something moved the stator where it's screwed to the engine case causing the timing to be off?

Does it pop like a backfire? Or does it sound like it would start if you could only kick it over a little faster?
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:41 PM
iajim iajim is offline
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Just one question, have you actually checked the compression w/a good compression gauge? I always think I can "feel" compression with my foot on the kickstarter but many people have been fooled.
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by iajim View Post
Just one question, have you actually checked the compression w/a good compression gauge? I always think I can "feel" compression with my foot on the kickstarter but many people have been fooled.
+1

Fuel + Spark + Comp = Running.

Start digging deeper. Have you tried a new plug? Are you kicking choke on/off? throttle open/closed? How are the reeds? Are you certain there is nothing in the intake tract? (old rag). If you've got all 3 above then you need to make sure you have right air/fuel ratio and it should go.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:49 AM
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wrench wrench is offline
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Ok, lets back up a bit ...

"I have rebuilt the carb twice and it is recieving fuel properly. When i pull the plug after kicking it 10 to 15 times it is wet without an buildup, for some reason it just wont fire. On the 10th to 15th kick the bike does a nice big puff of smoke si i believe that combined with how it feels, tells me i have good compression."


You also stated that you have replaced the plug, Is this the plug you replaced or is this the replacement? Is it wet from fuel? Oil? Coolant?

1st step is to go back to what was changed [most likely the culprit], how much clearance is there between the FWW and the components on the stator? Check the components for abrasions due to contact. Take a good look at the windings, wires, igniter.

Have you tried putting the old FWW back on and trying to start it?

FWIW, the spark plug keeps nagging at my brain on this. Your description and evidence just sound so simple, like a fuel fouled plug. When you are checking the spark, do you hear a nice rapid "snap" when it sparks or is it a slow quiet spark?

I would think that if it were an issue caused by the flywheel, there would have been some kind of running issue [ie;popping/sputtering/hesitation] during the checkout ride. You said that it ran fine and you simply shut it down and parked it for 4/5 days.

heck, it could be as simple as a critter having bitten/pulled the plug wire and when you pull it over to test for spark all is good until you put it back into position, opening the connection again, thus losing spark when attempting to start it.

It may turn out to be something else, but I have found most often when i get stumped on an issue [30yrs as a tech, I have been stumped a few times] it is from "over thinking" the problem and going back to the basics will quickly get me in the right direction.

Someone already mentioned to do an actual compression test, that would be the next step for me.

As the over thinking continues in my head... have you checked your coolant level? Is it low, due to a possibly bad cyl head o-ring allowing the coolant to seep into the cylinder after it was shut down. That would cause starting issues. Sometimes a latex glove [like a Dr uses] stretched over the radiator fill can show this. If it is bad enough, you will see it inflate as you continue to kick the motor over for a bit.

JMO's I hope they help.

One more thing, have you tried to roll/bump start it?
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Last edited by wrench; 01-17-2013 at 02:53 AM. Reason: one more question
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:49 AM
mswilkes mswilkes is offline
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Question Reply to the last three

Thank you first of all for helping me on this. I have tried 2 new spark plugs. When I have pulled a plug it is wet with gas. I have tried to start it with choke on, throttle open, throttle closed, and every other which way. Last night I tried to start it without out the FWW and no luck. There were no signs that the weight was causing any abrasions or contact issues. The stator is advanced all the way in the slots, so I might move it to center tonight. I will also do a compression test, what should I be showing for compression. Finally I will pull all electrical components for a closer inspection. Please continue brain storming with me and provide ideas, they are really helping. If the trouble shooting does not work tonight, I will shoot a video of trying to start it and link it to YouTube from here to see if that helps any.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:05 AM
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No rags stuffed in the air boot? Compression should really be around 170 - 200psi.
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:45 AM
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gasgasman gasgasman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakobi View Post
+1

Fuel + Spark + Comp = Running.
At the correct time. Also factor in air.

I'm thinking the keyway groove in the flywheel is damaged.
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:39 AM
mswilkes mswilkes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakobi View Post
No rags stuffed in the air boot? Compression should really be around 170 - 200psi.
I will check all the air passage tonight and compression, thanks for the number

Also, I have tried roll starting it and the bike fires for a brief couple of seconds but dies quickly like it's choking. The sound it makes for the quick seconds is a very low quite choking sound.
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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The stator should not be mounted to the stops one way or the other. 2K-3s have an insert to locate them correctly, 2K-2s do not. Which do you have?

My other guess is the HV coil wire. This has happened to me twice on two GGs. The bond to the coil breaks down and lets in moisture. Conductor corrodes. HV leaks around insulatiion. When checked you will see a spark, but under compression in the engine the spark may not occur due to the extra resistance in the wire. This problem can occur in an instant.
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