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Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion


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  #11  
Old 08-30-2010, 12:52 PM
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firffighter firffighter is offline
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Seems like there is some movement back to smaller cc bikes over the past year. KTM's 350, Gasser 250f, Husky's whole line of small bikes.

I love the power of the 250 2-stroke, but the reality is it is a 49 HP motor and there is no way I can come close to using all of that in the woods.

I think I am growing accustomed to the fact that a 250f or 125/150 2-stroke is a deadly weapon is tight terrain and hard to beat.

BTW, I am not convinced by 1 article that the Gasgas 250f is a dog. I would really love to ride one. I love Gasgas' approach to building quality, functional off-road bikes. Hopefully they will catch on and more will be imported (especially to my local dealer )


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  #12  
Old 08-30-2010, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddemon View Post
I have ridden the Gas Gas 250f 2010 model briefly and was pleased with it: enough power, good brakes, good suspension and doesn't scare the shit out of you like a big two stroke. I would recommend such a bike for a beginning enduro/trail rider who doesn't weigh more then 80 kg in full gear. It's a bike which you can buy and don't grow out of it for years. For road use and open trails it's just enough horsepower but for all other riding circumstances fits me perfectly. (with at least 4 cm lowering offcourse since i'm a lightweight shortie )
I think it depends on your terrain. A 250F is good for anyone in the UK up to Clubman level (intermediate class) and probably fine for mid class Experts on timecard enduro terrain. Having raced the KTM 250 EXCF I was stunned by the performance for a 250F - I'm 110Kg!

I don't get the GG 250F. It's n-1 generation Yamaha engine. They don't appear to have done anything worthwhile with it. It might've been ok had GG stayed with the Ohlins/Zokes setup. I agree they need a 250F to complete the line up but I think they should've waited until they could do it properly either with their own motor or by modifying someone elses to be a bit special. But ....... I heard rumours they're selling like hot cakes in Spain but that sort of brand loyalty isn't going to work so well in other countries. I suspect the price they're paying Yamaha doesn't leave any room for mods.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
I think it depends on your terrain
I agree completely. Our time keeper enduros are the type of terrain you are lucky to get out of 3rd gear. Most of what we have on the west side of Oregon/Washington is wet, steep, and has the 3 deadly R's (rocky, rooted and often rutted).

A small cc bike that wont wear you out is key in this environment.

One thing to consider it that the Yami 250f motor is a fantastic motor once uncorked. Many who have ridden it back to back with the Husky TE's and even the TXC's say they are very close.

Stateside, Thad Duval did very well on a WR250f in the GNCC series last year and in the Enduro World Championships, Christoph Guerrero does a great job on the little Yami.
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2010, 01:40 PM
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Personally, I'm not sold on the 250F. I was stoked on it, but GasGas Pacific lent me one for a couple weeks to try out and afterwards I wasn't impressed. The chassis is flat stunning (though the suspension could use a revalve). It feels light and will carve a line under anything. The problem is the motor. In two weeks, I could not get it jetted right. It constantly had a bog off idle that killed it in the tight woods. I ride really technical singletrack and could not come to grips with the bike. It needs a drastic dose of low end power. Any sort of obstacle directly out of a corner was brutal on the little bike.

I've ridden a few other 250Fs and been impressed. If I was in the market for a 250F, I'd get a KTM. Any small bore will handle well (it's hard not to) and the KTM engine flat rips. The price of the GasGas is high (though it is dropping) and for the price, it's old-school with no real advantage.

All that said, it would be a wicked project to put a 290 big bore in the little Gasser and try to get the engine to work as well as a KTM. As it is, I stuck with my EC250, but just recently bought a Husaberg FE390.
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:32 PM
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Did you mess with the leak jet and accel pump adjustment? A friend and I got his WR running real well with the JD kit and these adjustments.
Also, I wonder what CDI they are using, as these have changed a bit.

If I had one, I'd buy another motor and build it up at my leisure with the best components. In fact the thing to do would be to buy a used one when it pops up on ebay and do just that.

KTMs run hard but if it goes boom its not worth fixing.
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2010, 03:55 PM
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Tried a JD kit, leak jet adjustment, fuel screw, accelerator, no luck on the jetting. Supposedly it's better now, but in the two weeks I had it, I could not get it to run right. Revved out it was good and a lot of fun on 2nd and 3rd gear trails.
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  #17  
Old 08-30-2010, 03:58 PM
ScottyR ScottyR is offline
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The first EC250Fs that came to NA were full-on EU homologated bikes that were totally choked up and had a muffler that you could stick your pinky finger in the end of. Those bikes ran like crap, plain and simple. I do know 3 people who have ridden the EC250Fs and they all agree that in EU spec, they suck. Jet them right and slap and muffler that actually flows air through and the bike works great!

1 guy I know put an FMF Powerbomb header from a WR250 and an FMF muffler on it and the bike rips.

The later build bikes that came to NA have come with an FMF Powercore muffler and they run like they are supposed to.
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2010, 04:50 PM
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Initial review from TBM on the EC250f was also that the bike was restricted and they couldnt sort out the jetting. They could not come to terms with the engine.

Second test was with a DP pipe. They liked the results, but felt the Yami had more snort with the stock pipe.

One thing about these Yami's, 450's included, is that they can be a pain to jet and get dialed in. I had a WR450 last fall and it took some time to get sorted, but once there, it would rip your arms out of the socket.

With my Yami (really my sons ), I uncorked it, put on a FMF pipe, removed the AIS, re-jetted, O-ring mod, AP setting, the works, and the bike has no hesitation whatsoever. It will lug all day at idle, then twist hard and it rips without a hickup. I have only stalled the bike twice in very technical boulder fields with my brother on his EC250 smoker stalled right behind me.

Yes, these 250f's do take some tinkering to get dialed in, but once there, are very effective. Reminds me of jetting a 125 2-stroke.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2010, 05:21 PM
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I had about 1/2 hour test ride on a ktm 350 sx on a nice little sand mx track. Very nice bike. It been awhile since i have been on a 4t. it did not seem to have excessive engine braking and the motor seem to rev nicely. I think in xc w trim it could be a market killer. Like they need more market share already.
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2010, 11:38 PM
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I think from reviews in the UK and comments here the pipe is killing it. Yes I'm sure it would be a great bike if you uncorked the motor, rejetted and revalved. But how much have you just spent. Why not buy a KTM it's lighter and you only need spend a fraction to get it setup right? They work well out of the box. I think when we all move to 300/350 it might open the market up.

What happened to Honda in this space? They seem very disinterested in enduro / trail.

I think GasGas's best plan would be to work hard on a 350 motor. That's go to be the killer capacity. Light and agile, enough torque and power when you want it but easy to keep controlled when conditions are tricky. Probably easier to build a competative but reliable motor than a 250.
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