2004 EC200 Jetting

[2004ec200]

Hello,

My First post here on GGRC. Also first GG for me. I have had a couple of KDX 200's over the years and love the bike but wanted to try something different. Found this EC200 and purchased it from a dealer sight unseen. Bike is in real nice shape but power could be better. I have been lurking here for some time and have read 100's of post (I think all I could find on the internet) on jetting for the EC200. But just can't seem to find a post that sounds like my bikes symptoms.

Bike starts first kick, with or without choke. will idle till warm. Won't idle for long once hot. Idle just keeps slowing till it stalls. I've tryed adjusting the air screw but it dosnt seem to have much affect (weird). Bike will stall if screwed all the way in so it is working. Idle screw is all the way in. No dents in pipe, muffler may need to be repacked. spark plug looks great (not wet and a nice tan/brown color). Just a note of spooge out the exhaust, looks normal. Power valve closes and is working. Running NAVGAS (leaded airplane fuel, 100 octaine) at 45:1 with HP2 synthetic racing oil. pulled the carb and found the following:
165 main
50 slow
NBHW needle 2nd clip

Jetting looks weird to me. I'm guessing that 50 slow jet is the idle problem. Bike runs mid to upper throttle great. awesome top end. But you HAVE to be in the pipe for it go. There is virtually no bottom end. Just bbuuuwwwwwgggg until you hit the pipe then ye ha. both KDX's Ive had would blow the doors off this EC on the bottom. Carb is the PWK38, engine compression is 154 psi. Haven't checked float height yet. Pipe is a FMF Fatty. I also have an FMF Gnarly I have not tried. elevation = 1300 feet, temp = 85 degrees, Bike has Boyesen intake and reeds.

Any help with dialing this thing in would be greatly appreciated and thanks for all the useful info from days past on this site I've been able to read and learn from!!

Tom
Missouri, USA

[liv2day]

Originally Posted by 2004ec200

Bike starts first kick, with or without choke. will idle till warm. Won't idle for long once hot. Idle just keeps slowing till it stalls. I've tryed adjusting the air screw but it dosnt seem to have much affect (weird). Bike will stall if screwed all the way in so it is working. Idle screw is all the way in. No dents in pipe, muffler may need to be repacked. spark plug looks great (not wet and a nice tan/brown color). Just a note of spooge out the exhaust, looks normal. Power valve closes and is working. Running NAVGAS (leaded airplane fuel, 100 octaine) at 45:1 with HP2 synthetic racing oil. pulled the carb and found the following:
165 main
50 slow
NBHW needle 2nd clip

Hey Tom - welcome to the GG world and forum!

I'm by no means a jetting expert (more like novice), but we have a couple of EC200s and I've been trying to get my wife's (our 2nd) 200 dialed in.

First off, given your elevation and temps, my guess is your pilot jet is WAY too rich. That would explain the lack of bottom end and not wanting to do anything until you open her up a little.

I'd try going down to a 42 PJ and see how she responds. I don't know anything about that needle, but hopefully Jakobi will chime in as he has lots of knowledge (as do others on here).

Have you checked this thread: http://gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17437 ? Not trying to insult your experience or intelligence, but there are some things to check that might help get you pointed in the right direction.

If the bike starts on the first kick cold w/o choke, that's a sign that your PJ is too rich too.

Good luck getting her jetted, I'm testing changes on my wife's 200 today and will report back in the thread I started.

And again...welcome!

[liv2day]

Oh yeah, thought it might be helpful to post up the settings we have on both our 200s. They're '11s and I don't know what the differences compared to the '04 - probably the older style carb (Jake?).

On my EC200 I have the following:

40 pilot
R1470 Needle @#2
172 main
A/S 1.75 turns out
#7 slide

On my wife's EC200 we have:

42 pilot
NEDH #2 (needs more testing)
175 main
A/S 2.25 turns out
#6 slide

Our typical riding is probably similar to yours, though with less humidity. We ride in 1k - 4k feet with temps in the 60s this time of year.

Post up with what you find after you do more testing...I'll have more information today too

[2004ec200]

Hi Liv2day,

Thanks for the information. That link you provided was one post I hadn't seen. Some good info there. I've also seen your last Jetting post. Didn't want to get in the middle of your discussion with my issues so started this thread.

What fuel do you use (unleaded pump or Nav Gas)?

Per the manual the standard settings are:
Unleaded fuel = 185 main and 38 pilot
leaded fuel = 160 main and 35 pilot

Per the manuals calculation sheet I should be around 154 main and 34 pilot using leaded fuel. I think I may keep the 165 main in and try a 40 pilot (smallest pilot I have at this time). Someone had written "Summer 180 main and 40 slow, Winter 182 main and 42 slow" on the cover of the manual that came with the bike. There was also two jets in the manual, a 180 and a 40. So I figured the bike had the 182/42 in it but discovered the 165/50 when I took a look.

Will definitely post my finding but would like to hear any comments/suggestions too.

Cheers,

Tom

[liv2day]

Originally Posted by 2004ec200

What fuel do you use (unleaded pump or Nav Gas)?

Per the manual the standard settings are:
Unleaded fuel = 185 main and 38 pilot
leaded fuel = 160 main and 35 pilot

So I figured the bike had the 182/42 in it but discovered the 165/50 when I took a look.

I'm running 98 premium without ethanol (there are a few stations around and I always make sure to buy this for all our bikes).

I'd take what the manual says with a big grain of salt...lol. 154 MJ and 34MJ is super lean, maybe if you were riding at 10k feet, but that's awfully lean given your elevation.

I just made a big break through on my wife's 200; playing with the NEDH needle and ended up finding the best response at #2. #3 was ok, but still a little too rich, #2 has absolutely wonderful throttle response and it's silky smooth as I roll on.

Another caveat I need to add is I had the RB Head Mod done; waited a couple months on my 200 and that was just stupid - Ron's head mod is the best $75 I spent on the bike

Anyway, back to your bike. What slide does that have in it?

I'd start with either a 40 or 42 PJ and 170 or 172 MJ and test from there. I'm not sure where that NBHW needle stands on the chart, but if you're getting good response 1/4 to 3/4, it's probably in the ball park - though I'm sure that'll change as you lean out the PJ and fatten up the MJ.

If you want to make your head spin, head over to KTMTalk.com and search through some of the jetting threads on the 200s. One of their members (Jerseydevil) has a ton of knowledge and that's how I came to order the NECH and NEDH needles for my wife's 200.

Keep us posted on how it's going

[2004ec200]

went through a few things:

cleaned pipe
repacked muffler
cleaned the clean air filter and oiled how I like it (a light coating of 2 stroke oil, i've tried the spray on stuff and don't like it, to restrictive)
adjusted float to 16mm (was about 18 to 19 mm)
changed to premium unleaded pump fuel
put in 40 slow jet
left in the 165 main
put needle in 3rd position
carb has #6 slide

bike now idles , air screw is 1 3/4 turns out. Much better low end power. The bbuuwwwggg has gone away. strong mid-range and top end still screemin . Now to put a few miles on it and see how it does real world versus my back yard.

[2004ec200]

just an update to different jetting findings. below are the results:

172 mj
40 pj
NEDH needle #2
added over-sized power valve cover

bike ran ok. a little more bottom end and still real strong on top. Spark plug black but not wet. lots of spooge out the pipe. idle not quite right. air screw 3 turns out

Then

Changed back to NBHW needle #3 (NBHW tip looks thinner than NEDH), & Advanced timing (measures 1.8 to 2mm BTDC). Much better low end grunt, more linear power, no spooge out the exhaust, idles nice with air screw 1.75 turns out. Plug is dry, very light golden brown with a clean ground electrode (no particles).

I will be changing the main jet to a 180 next to get a little more color in the plug.

has any one else advanced their timing and what results did it have on your jetting.

Cheers.

[liv2day]

Originally Posted by 2004ec200

has any one else advanced their timing and what results did it have on your jetting.

Cheers.

That's really interesting, having done that on either of our bikes, but it makes me wonder if doing that on my 200 would clear up the spooge I get. My wife's 200 doesn't drool at all and her jetting is relatively richer over the entire spectrum compared to mine.

The caveat is I've had the head mod done to both our bikes - have you considered this on yours? Doesn't sound like you need it now though - sounds like you found a perfect setup

I don't know the difference between the NEDH and NBHW needles...Jake? The limited searching I've done shows that the NEDH needle is on the richer side of the Zuk needles (NECK to NEDF), but I can't find squat about the NBHW. Where'd you get that needle?

Anyway, so great to hear you like the power delivery...now you make me want to learn how to adjust the timing...LOL.

[Danj56]

Originally Posted by liv2day

That's really interesting, having done that on either of our bikes, .

If you have a 2011 six days I don't believe you can advance the timing. The older bikes with the different ignition you can.

[liv2day]

Originally Posted by Danj56

If you have a 2011 six days I don't believe you can advance the timing. The older bikes with the different ignition you can.

I feel stoopid...lol. At least I learned something new!