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Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion


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  #1  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:53 AM
gomi gomi is offline
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Default Rode new bike for 3 days, had more problems than fun

I just bought this 04 GG 450 supermoto for $4000 from L&D Racetech in Oregon, they delivered it to me in Washington, gave me a good deal on riding gear and I was happy...until I started riding it.

1st ride, noticed the dash unit doesn't work, it is on, but doesn't register speed or miles. Also noticed it said the bike had 300 some miles on it and L&D wrote on the title that it had 738. Couldn't find anything wrong so I said screw it and ordered a Trail Tech Vapor.
While searching for the problem, I noticed a wire broken off of the regulator, I thought, maybe they did it on purpose since it has aftermarket turn signals and a TFI? I don't know much about motorcycles.

2nd ride, ran out of gas. (*My fault* for assuming it would have a low gas light, which it should)

3rd ride, in stop and go traffic for an hour, got to the gas station, filled up and it wouldn't start, dead battery. Had to bump start it to get home. I suspect the problem to be the regulator, called L&D and told them i need one, they said they'd call me back after they check stock, still waiting. I soldered the wire back on in hopes that was the problem.

AND when I went to push the bike back in the yard after messing with the regulator, my clutch is dragging like mad. With the lever fully to the bar, it acts like it is still in gear, I have to put it in neutral to even roll it. It dragged very slightly with the lever pulled every time I rode it, but it didn't seem very bad, now it's completely *^%&*@.

This bike is completely awesome when it actually works, I can live with the lack of fuel light, and I got a new speedo unit in the mail. If a new regulator fixes my battery problem, cool. But I have no idea how to mess with motorcycle clutches or why it would just suddenly do this after shutting the bike off.

The problem to fun ratio is just not looking good with this machine so far. It was my second choice to a Husqvarna sm610, I couldn't quite afford the Husky, but this bike is quickly approaching the price of the damn Husky. I start school on Monday, I don't have time to be messing with this thing.

ANYONE WANT TO BUY A GG SUPERMOTO? Or trade for a Husqvarna 610+cash?


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  #2  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:47 AM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
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Seems like that's a bummer but on the other hand your right a GG 450 SM is an awesome bike. My suggestion would be to find someone with some wiring knowledge, hopefully a friend so it wont and to your expenses. About the clutch, could be air in the clutch line or a bad seal. Could also be something with the clutch itself. but a quick at the internals should clear up what the problem is.

I'd at least keep it til I sorted it out. With the dry sump motor it usually makes for lots of trouble free motor miles.

Tony
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:52 AM
gomi gomi is offline
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I wouldn't know what to look for if I could even figure out where the clutch cover was. I've done car clutches, but they seem too different. The two manuals I found on the GasGas website are less than helpful. Is there an actual repair manual for these things anywhere?

Any idea why it would suddenly start dragging like that? It was fine until I got it home after the battery died, but when I went to push it into the yard, the back tire was dragging with the clutch in fully. How could air get in the line like that? A leak?
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:35 PM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
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GG has a hydraulic clutch so like anything hydraulic air can get in the line. You may be pressing the clutch lever but its not translating to movement of the clutch rod in the motor. The clutch has its own cover and is just a bunch of steel and cork plates. If you open the cover you will be able to get a general idea by pushing in the clutch lever and seeing where its not letting loose. But once its running again and the clutch is re-oiled by the motor it may be just fine.

This site as well as other GasGas sites including the Spanish home site includes complete repair and parts manuals in PDF format for downloading.

Tony
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2009, 03:20 PM
gomi gomi is offline
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Thanks man, I appreciate your help.
Can you point me to the correct link for the repair manual? I can't seem to find it, I can only find the user manual and parts list on the GG spanish site and only fork and electrical manuals on this site.

I started the bike today and rode it around for a few minutes. It seemed back to how it was before I sure hope it stays that way.

Will very slight clutch drag cause my clutch to wear out sooner? It is very very light, and sounds like a common thing with the GG's from what I've read.

cal_tony, is it normal for power delivery to be a bit rough? When accelerating, the bike seems to not pull smoothly, sort of like the torque curve feels like an upward zig-zag, not dramatic, but noticeable.

The throttle also feels like an on-off switch rather than analog, it makes accelerating from a stop and turning through intersections a bit tricky, as it's hard to keep the rev's constant. It's hard to use the right amount of throttle. Is it probably the TFI settings that are causing this? Do you know what optimal settings would be for a 04 450sm with just an FMF exhaust?
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:31 PM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
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I just read your questions and I don't know offhand what the manual sites are but since I down loaded them I will find out for you by tomorrow. Re: the performance. I know that the GG has 2 modes of performance. There is a black wire coming out of the ECU under the seat(I think it connects to pin 19.There has been discussion re: that on this site). With that wire connected to ground the performance is not very good and it is a lot like what you described. Not connecting that wire to anything (Leaving it open) gives a more aggressive setting to the computer and the bike should run better.

About the clutch drag, drag is better than partial contact. Still could be air in the lines or a fragment of something between the clutch plates.
Anyway, I will check on where I found my manuals from. It was a GG site but I just don't remember which one

Tony
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:32 PM
cal_tony cal_tony is offline
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http://www.gasgas.com/end_manuals.htm
http://www.gasgasmotos.es/eng/frame.htm
http://www.gasgasmotos.es/rcs/manuales/endurofse.htm

Seems like what I've gotten has come from these sites.

Hope it helps

Tony
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  #8  
Old 06-20-2009, 01:23 PM
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cvl05 cvl05 is offline
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Gomi
I ride 2t GG bike not the 4t but have a lot of experience in road racing bikes and clutches. I've run into problems like you describe by running the incorrect engine oil. The clutch uses oil to lubricate. Clutches on some bikes need a friction modifier to help the plates slip and not drag with the clutch engaged, you might see this on cars with a limited slip diff. They use a friction modifier to help the rear diff plates from chattering when you go around a corner, Ford is a good example. M/C clutches are similar,. It may be wise to go to your local m/c store Cycle Gear or whatever and purchase some m/c synthetic oil. Or go to Auto Zone, they sell Mobil 1 m/c 4t racing oil cheaper than the m/c stores. This oil is specific to work with m/c clutches. I like Motoex or Mobil one.

Beyond that all bikes, especialy Euro bikes have clutch drag, don't make too much of this. I rode KTM's for years and now GG for 4 years and they all drag, that's why it's hard to find neutral. On ktm you can't find neutral unless the engine is shut down due to clutch drag, i've never had a clutch failure on a KTM or GG and i abuse the s**t out of the clutch.

Try oil and enjoy.....
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2009, 03:33 AM
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iancp5 iancp5 is offline
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Yeah the lack of low fuel light or alternatively a reserve is a pain. I have an 06 and there is a fuel light - check if you have a sensor you may just need to wire a light in? GasGas do drag their clutches a bit when cold but should be ok when hot. Even warm you can feel drag if you push the bike in gear. You need to keep the charging circuit / battery in good condition because let's face it the kickstart is decoration only on most of them.

I don't know on what basis you bought the bike but aren't some of these faults down to the dealer to fix? Especially the regulator as there is no way you could know about that. It was the regulator not the ECU?
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:08 PM
gomi gomi is offline
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Thanks for the links to those manuals.

I can't seem to locate the wire that you are talking about that changes the mapping for the efi. Do bikes that are fitted with a TFI still have this?

Yeah, I noticed the decorative faux kickstarter early on. The bike just basically laughs at you if you even try to use it.

The dealer really should be taking care of all this, but they are in Oregon and I'm in Washington. They didn't tell me anything was wrong with the bike and the condition was listed as "Excellent"

They should have given me a Trail Tech for free since the speedometer clearly hadn't been working for some time as it reads 338 miles and on the title the put 750. This I still don't understand, how do they know it has 750 if the odometer hasn't even been working?

They said they'd give me the Vapor at their cost which was $90, but it really should have been free, so I ordered it elsewhere.

I told them about the regulator and they said they'd send me one, there was no mention of cost, so I assume it's free. If I get a bill I'm sending it back. I shouldn't have to pay for anything to repair this bike, all this stuff should have been taken care of before delivery.

I assumed it was the regulator because it had a broken wire on it and one real close to breaking. I soldered them on for a temporary fix and it seems to be fine so far.
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