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Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion |
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2003 400 FSE Fuel Injection Issues
Hi all,
Boy have I got a story for you. I bought this 2003 400 FSE end of last year and got to ride it all of 3 months before it gave out on me. It's got that common problem of the Fuel pump not priming when the ignition is turned on. Plus the fuel pump does not turn on after the starter has spooled and stopped. So I've changed everything in the system I could get parts for. I've also scoured this forum for any other similar occurance and tried all those fixes, ignition swtch, kill switch, etc. First were the fuses and the relay. $11 So, yes, I jumpered over where the relay would be, and the fuel pump runs and pumps fuel. That of course was after I bought a new OEM fuel pump from Gofasters... $950 I've checked the original relay that was in there and the replacement relay I got by putting direct power through and both actuate. I figured since the fuel pump relay actuation is an ECU function "maybe the ECU was fried" so new Magneti Marelli 15P $450... No change. Since I can't find ANYWHERE a wiring diagram for the 2003 400 FSE, I've been going off of the 450 FSE for at least reference. If anybody has a link or reference to a way I can get a wiring diagram I'd be very grateful. Having gotten fed up with not having any luck with physically changing parts to get it working and all of the wiring seeming to be in good working order (no opens or shorts where there shouldn't be) I looked for dealership support, and was told by both (relatively) local dealers that they "don't work on that" one because it was a four-stroke, and the other because it's fuel injected. Total so far $1411 - Bought the bike for $3000 Now I found the Biketech OBD tool online for $1250, but before I jump to buying that I was going to put the call out to all my fellow Gas Gas enthusists to find out if there is a dealer or other shop in Washington or Oregon that has a diagnostic tool I can plug into to see if there's any codes I can clear and turn this boat anchor back into a motorcycle. I'm in Western Washington, But i'm willing to take a road trip if I have to. I love it when it runs, best bike I've had yet. But does me no good if it wont start. Thanks |
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Have you verified that the ecu actually gets power when you turn the key?
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I would suspect the wiring...can you recall the symptoms when it quit?
Does anything else light up when you turn on the ignition switch? The ECU has a permanent live on pin 17 via a fuse, the ignition switch just signals the ecu to start but it powers lights and stuff as well. Forget the diagnostic kit for the time being, it will probably only tell you what you already know! If your ecu is live on pin 17 and with the ignition switch on it supplies 12v on ecu pin 26 you need to check that ecu pin 19 goes low. This is the fuel pump relay trigger and grounds the relay coil. There is a blocking diode between that pin and the relay. The position of that diode is not certain. Mine is on the back of the relay socket but it could be taped in the harness somewhere between the relay and the ecu (nightmare). The 12v supply to the relay coil is off the ignition switch. Hope that helps
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06 Gas Gas FSE 450 USA 07 Gas Gas FSR 450 UK with motard and dirt wheels |
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Thanks for the tips, just got internet set back up. I'm going to ring out those wires and get back to ya.
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2003 Gas Gas 400FSE 2003 Honda XR250R 1986 Kawasaki KDX80 1974 Honda Elsinore MT250 |
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So I checked those wires. Verified I'm getting Voltage to Pin 26 When Ignition is switched on, then getting no voltage when switched off. Verified Pin 17 has permanent 12V. Diode was oriented correctly. Removed Diode (located in the fuse box and soldered into a Buss fuse adapter) to check for back voltage from pin 19. None. switching off and on I get a constant 4 Ohms of resistance. there is no change in readings. With the diode in I get constant voltage across the diode heading to pin 19 whether the ignition is switched on or off. It seems as though the relay actuation circuitry is not grounding, but I'm not sure what to do now, I've already tried a different ECU and cleaned all the ground connections I could locate.
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2003 Gas Gas 400FSE 2003 Honda XR250R 1986 Kawasaki KDX80 1974 Honda Elsinore MT250 |
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There should not be any voltage on pin 19, using an ohm-meter to measure on live electronics is sure to get irratic results. Can you get the fuel pump relay to pull if you ground the cable to pin 19? (migth wanna disconnect it from the ecu first.
I have attached a different schematic, an older version. Might do you some good. |
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Quote:
The dealer cost on that system was around $400 at the time, so I don't think it would be nearly as expensive as the program you mentioned. You may be able to get a semi-local dealership to put your bike on their diagnostic program for a nominal fee. One more thought. One time, I couldn't figure out why the fuel pump on my 2003 FSE400 wasn't kicking on when I turned on the key. The most I could get was a "fast clicking" from the fuel pump relay. After waiting for and installing new fuel pump relays, I figured out that my battery was too weak to work the fuel pump. After a new battery, it ran fine, even after I reinstalled the old relays. Good Luck with your problem. Jim
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Jim Cook Smackover Racing Team LAGNAF '11 Gas Gas EC250 (primary ride) '06 Gas Gas DE300 2004 Gas Gas TXT300 Pro '94 Husaberg FE350 '86 Yamaha IT200 '86 Honda TRL200 Reflex '04 KTM 525EXC (soon to be dual sported) Several others, including project bikes, Deb's bike, and a fleet of grandkids' bikes Let's go riding! http://www.jebruns.com/Wudi19/wudi19.html http://www.ahrma.org/schedules-results/cross-country/ Last edited by Jim Cook; 08-18-2012 at 12:47 PM. |
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ECU diag program from Technoresearch $229 http://technoresearch.com/index.php?pid=37
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Quote:
Checking out the screenshots of the program, they look very much like the program I was using. Thanks for the link. Good Riding! Jim
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Jim Cook Smackover Racing Team LAGNAF '11 Gas Gas EC250 (primary ride) '06 Gas Gas DE300 2004 Gas Gas TXT300 Pro '94 Husaberg FE350 '86 Yamaha IT200 '86 Honda TRL200 Reflex '04 KTM 525EXC (soon to be dual sported) Several others, including project bikes, Deb's bike, and a fleet of grandkids' bikes Let's go riding! http://www.jebruns.com/Wudi19/wudi19.html http://www.ahrma.org/schedules-results/cross-country/ |
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If you are tech savvy this will do most of the commands for the 15p and m variants and it comes with source code so it can be modded to fully support them. It also has support for the quirky 'K line' interface that our model uses.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/iaw-scan/ You will need to construct or buy the interface ($20 worth of components) to get it working but it may be worth a try if you are so inclined. Also it should be possible to contact the author and have him add the relevant commands/error code interpretation for the bike versions
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06 Gas Gas FSE 450 USA 07 Gas Gas FSR 450 UK with motard and dirt wheels |
Tags |
enduro, fse400, fuel injection, parts, wiring |
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