2 Thumbs Up on 48 CC Zokes!

[AZRickD]

And how would that make the initial stroke change compared to adjusting the compression clickers ?

[Jakobi]

Great thinking Steve. I haven't had mine apart yet to see how its all assembled. Something that will happen more likely sooner than later.

The more preload on the ICS the higher the pressure of the internal chamber will be during an impact. Higher pressures = greater resistance to both initially moving, and through the valving. Increasing it may be similar to going up a spring rate.

The compression adjuster is just a bleed on the stack. It can only bypass a set volume of fluid at any one time. Closing the comp adjuster up can increase the damping, but more so low speed damping. The PFP should have a more noticable/greater effect on feel, without changing the actual damping curve as much. Just making it firmer over all.

If you want a quick demo, take a shock and remove the spring. Put 150psi into it and then adjust the compression clicker and cycle it through its stroke and see if you feel the difference. Then drop 50 psi out and do the same, then drop another 50psi. See if you can pick the difference.

[AZRickD]

Hmmmm. Given that, I think I will try backing off the PFP one notch and upping the compression clickers a half turn or two (they don't click, btw).

[Simmo737]

I was laying in bed last night with a Christmas level of red wine on board thinking about pfp adjustment and why gasgas valving has no float on the mid valve. I think the pfp is a great tuning kit for getting a wide range of stock settings working. I have been avoiding preload on this bike and have changed my thoughts, I have .48 springs, I had been running zero pfp, 2 mm preload and clickers c10 r 11, I had never gone the other way. I think no float means the stack s operational at anything more than zero movement and the pfp pretty well determines how divey you want the bike. I wound in 2 pfp and went in to 9r and went out to 18c and I had the same amount of brake dive and was using a lot more stroke on square edges and the bike is a lot less spikey, I went in to 2.5 and the dive reduced, bit more follow the ground feel but not obtrusive and the same lush highspeed feel, this all just around my 2.5 acre block and dirt roads so I would need a days ride to really fiddle and verify but I think it proves that the pfp is better than just a spring preload as you maintain the valving characteristics. Maybe gg or zoke no what they are doing with that mv.

[Simmo737]

Also am I right in saying that once you've overcome the preload the spring rate Increases at the standard rate, 1.5 kg/mm or whatever so it actually is only a higher cartridge pressure until the spring is moving from a point where it would be at the same preloaded or unpreloaded. This is the value of a spring vs gas pressure.

My brain hurts.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by Simmo737

Also am I right in saying that once you've overcome the preload the spring rate Increases at the standard rate, 1.5 kg/mm or whatever so it actually is only a higher cartridge pressure until the spring is moving from a point where it would be at the same preloaded or unpreloaded. This is the value of a spring vs gas pressure.

My brain hurts.

Convert the preload to a pressure needed to deflect. You can always resolve to a force or pressure since you know (presumably) the piston area.

PlusOnePerformance

[AZRickD]

Seeeemo, your Post # 14 is what I hope to see. Compliant with less smooshy dive and more stroke without losing the 48mm Zoke's excellent G-out control.

[Simmo737]

Originally Posted by twowheels

Convert the preload to a pressure needed to deflect. You can aleays resolve to a force or pressure since you know (presumably) the piston area.

PlusOnePerformance

Yep, so once the deflection occurs the spring rate is the is the same for the compressed distance of the spring regardless of preload as the preload has been overcome, with gas pressure, the rate is progressive due to the compressibility of gas just like oil height in the legs. So by not having a float, you are hoping to have enough pressure to back fill with the spring preload static pressure, and with gas the same, where as kyb/ Showa are lower/zero static and therefore need a float to backfill quickly on rod movement due to the very fast ramp in pressure due to the spring loading up, hence why main spring preload is around 10mm stock on jap bikes and 5mm on the zokes. Brain exploded.

[Jakobi]

I think my minds going to be turning over night.. To be honest I haven't even checked the PFP on mine yet; no idea where its at stock. Clickers initially set at C14, R10. Doesn't feel too bad but likewise, won't know until I clock up a decent ride.

[twowheels]

You can think of the PFP as simply an additional spring aiding in the support of the front end of the bike. It's adjustment allows for easy external adjustment of front end stiffness. That's one of the reasons a 48 Marzocchi PFP fork with 0.42s feels way stiffer than an 48 Sachs OC or 45 Marzocchi OC.