Forward Bar Position

[Rick]

Give these guys a call.....http://emigracing.com/

[skid jackson]

Originally Posted by FinGas

They also never, ever, ever use clutch. When Kari Tiainen trains young finnish enduroriders, he sometimes makes them to tape the lever to hand guard

I want to hear more about this!! ...
its opposite of what I have been told for years ....

[swazi_matt]

Originally Posted by skid jackson

I want to hear more about this!! ...
its opposite of what I have been told for years ....

+1 I can only imagine that it encourages you to tackle obstacles at higher speed and more commitment

[FinGas]

It's all about traction & control. Juha Salminen is the best on this, on special stages he rarely touches the clutch after start.

What theses guys think is that they get much better feeling of rear tire traction by using throttle only. Clutch usage easily puts power surges to rear tire. Using just throttle forces you to a smooth riding style

By the way - they have the same thinking of bar position: regardless of the shape and size of the rider they always have the bars very low and back. J.Salminen also has his bars narrowed

[firffighter]

Interesting.

I have heard many enduro experts say their bars are low and back as well. I wonder if the thinking is that it makes you ride with your elbow's out. I am always harping on my boys to ride with their elbow's out to help with turning and absorb impacts while maintaining control.

Good stuff

[gassi]

Originally Posted by FinGas

It's all about traction & control. Juha Salminen is the best on this, on special stages he rarely touches the clutch after start.

What theses guys think is that they get much better feeling of rear tire traction by using throttle only. Clutch usage easily puts power surges to rear tire. Using just throttle forces you to a smooth riding style

By the way - they have the same thinking of bar position: regardless of the shape and size of the rider they always have the bars very low and back. J.Salminen also has his bars narrowed

I heard same things about the bar position and the clutch using. A couple of example what benefit you can have, when you avoid for using the clutch:
If you are braking to the flat corner with the clutch pulled and in the corner you release the clutch and open the throttle same time, there is a big possibility that your bikes rear tire will begin to slide too much and that's where you lose time (and speed) I think this is the same thing what FinGas mean.

Using less clutch also give's you a less arm pump!

But maybe it's better for as "not so pro rider's" to set up our bike's and riding the style what feels best for as!?!

And for the Finnish guys: Maybe it's better not to tell all the secrets, why some of the world's best endurorider's come from Finland!!!

[andoman]

Forbidding clutch use by new riders does a VERY important thing: forces them to pick the VERY best lines.
Brilliant!

[Jakobi]

I can understand what FinGas is saying re the clutch. I've had more sucess running a section in the right gear under controlled throttle, than I have running a gear higher, more rpms and trying to modulate with the clutch. Its probably to an extent more to do with my lack of complete clutch vs throttle control, but then again an engine under load is much less responsive (less prone to breaking traction) than being on the biting point of clutch engagement. The rougher the terrain the more your arms pump, the harder it is to maintain that fine clutch control.

In saying all of this though, I still rely on the clutch to control things such as when the rear tyre breaks loose I clutch and release slowly to regain traction, or at the other end of the spectrum when climbing a hill and the bike stands up, its easier to cull some drive through the clutch than it is to chop the throttle.

Its a bit like the stand up vs sit down. Both have their places and its about learning when to do both. I guess by practicing riding without the clutch you're learning what you and the bike can handle without it.

[farmerj]

Some interesting thoughts from another post. I've read a couple of comments like this that prompted my question. Relates also to what some of you guys are saying about bar position.

Worst thing to do is rotate bars forward of the fork tube plane, ( even a little) if you do this you increase harshness (outside the actuation plane), reduce the moment arm making the steering heavier ( just like adding offset) and bring the angle of the grip passed the angle for straight arm strength in the wrist whilst standing and almost cocked wrists whilst seated. You also add height like bar risers. All round bad. If you are seated a lot intentionally, try more sweep lower rise, if you ride in the standing attack position ( or want to make yourself) less sweep more rise. Mx guys use the seated position for acceleration out of corners and into jump faces, managing their body position with upper body strength, hence the low rise larger sweep bars. Offload need the strength at low speed, technical sections and downhill, (standing) hence the higher rise lower sweep.

(Simmo737)

[swazi_matt]

Originally Posted by farmerj

Some interesting thoughts from another post. I've read a couple of comments like this that prompted my question. Relates also to what some of you guys are saying about bar position.

(Simmo737)

when talking about the bars being in line with the fork plane are you talking about the first part of the bars (rise portion) or the actual grip portion (which is slightly behind due to the angle of sweep)?