Rieju & GasGas Legacy Riders Club Forum  

Go Back   Rieju & GasGas Legacy Riders Club Forum > General Forums > General Discussions & Announcements

General Discussions & Announcements General Announcements, General Questions, e.g. What bike do I buy?, etc.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 08-07-2006, 04:47 PM
RBD RBD is offline
Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 91
Wink

OK, this is my take on the shim bucket verses the tappet adjuster valve clearance adjusting methods.

I am not saying this is 100% true with the two engines you are comparing, but this does hold true with most all bikes that I have experienced since 1988 on the shim valve motors.

Shim valve motors are a little more sophisticated and need a little tooling to make valve clearance adjustments, also if you do not have a good selection of shims on hand you will need to make a trip or two the M/C shop to either exchange one for another (yes there are some shops that will do this for a small fee) or just buy the ones you need.

I have found that almost all shim valve motors do not need to be re-shimmed on a regular basis (most street models will go 20K to 35K miles with out needing to be re-shimmed), but it is wise to check clearance on the recommended maintenance schedule.

For the most part the only time they need to be adjusted is when some one tightens a loose valve clearance. Most of the time a loose valve clearance is do to a carbon build up on a valve face or seat. Most shim valve motors are high revving and lugging them around or using low octane or low grade fuels will cause a valve to carbon up. It is my personal belief that all M/C engines be run hard at high RPM prior to checking valve clearance.

If a shim valve motor has a tight valve clearance (this could be a little normal for higher mileage engines). This usually indicates valve seat wear or a valve face is cupping. In this case you will want to keep an eye on that valve and if it continues to tighten, it might indicate that the valve should be replaced and valve seat re-cut.

Valve tappet adjuster motors are very straight forward and easy to adjust once you get access to them (some time this can be hard do to frame, body parts, etc.). It does take a little experience to master but is no big problem.

I have found that most all adjustable tappet motors need to be adjusted on a very regular basis. There are a lot of wear points that are always changing, such as rocker arm pivots, the tappet adjusters them selves, top of the valve stems and the rocker arm followers.

So, it is my opinion that the shim valve motor is a better design (provided the engine manufacture did their job) and is less maintenance than the tappet adjuster motor.

Thank you,
Ron

Please note! There are exceptions to ever rule and the above is my general experience with both type of valve systems.


Reply With Quote


  #12  
Old 08-07-2006, 06:09 PM
MattR's Avatar
MattR MattR is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Temperance, MI
Posts: 958
Default

Thanks Ron for sharing your experiences and detailed reply!

The shim adjustment sounds like a more "stable" arrangement and from what I read the Husky 510 has a more modern engine design than the KTM 525. This may also be why the Husky is getting comments as being an easier bike to work on... not to mention that it takes about 20 secs to pull the seat and tank off.
__________________
Matt
Current: 2009 Yamaha FZ1
Previous: 2001 GasGas TXT280, 2001 GasGas XC250, 2004 KTM 200EXC, 2007 GasGas EC250, 2007 Husqvarna SM610, 2008 Husqvarna WB165
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-08-2006, 04:56 AM
INABIL INABIL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rockaway Twp. N.J.
Posts: 50
Default

I prefer 2-strokes but bought the GasGas 4-stroke figuring it would be easier to register and it came w/ blinkers, brake lights, horn, headlight w/hi-lo and tail light so I figured I could do some light road riding too. I was looking at the Cannondale also, I wanted to try fuel injection and buy American but the GasGas had a back-up kick starter.

If I was going to by a 4-stroke again I'd go with the Husky 450 because they made it very easy to register and are known for making good motors. The GasGas is perfect for trail riding tight trails and creeping up nasty hills and light road riding, I was working the WEC in Hancock with it and had to do a lot of on and off road riding. But the way GasGas has the bike set-up is the kick starter can ONLY be used to assist the electric start when the battery gets low. Major disappointment, waay too easy to get stuck in the woods and very very very hard to register with the funky VIN#.

A guy I was setting up the trails with had a KTM 450 and when his battery went (alot of stopping and starting) the kickstarter worked flawlessly, gotta keep on top of the valves though on a 4-stroke.
Takes a while getting used to the engine braking and the weight and the heat, sucks riding on a hot day riding a hot bike and drinking hot water from your Camelback.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:17 AM
Metalefty's Avatar
Metalefty Metalefty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by INABIL
But the way GasGas has the bike set-up is the kick starter can ONLY be used to assist the electric start when the battery gets low. Major disappointment, waay too easy to get stuck in the woods.

A guy I was setting up the trails with had a KTM 450 and when his battery went (alot of stopping and starting) the kickstarter worked flawlessly, gotta keep on top of the valves though on a 4-stroke.
Takes a while getting used to the engine braking and the weight and the heat, sucks riding on a hot day riding a hot bike and drinking hot water from your Camelback.
Who told you that? With all that constant starting while working the course just kick the bike a few starts until the battery is charged again. You don't have to e-start the bike until the battery dies, it's one of the easiest starting 4 strokes, just kick at it like a 2 stroke. As for the GG450 being a hot bike, most of the heat you feel is the radiator fan blowing hot air away from the radiator, something most other bikes don't have along with a recovery tank. I've owned this bike for a year and haven't been stuck in the woods one time, even when the stator went bad, I just rode back to the truck on battery juice. Also, the stator is the ONLY thing that has broke on this bike and since GG's aren't known for unreliable stators I just took it as a freak failure.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-08-2006, 10:15 AM
GMP's Avatar
GMP GMP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jefferson Twp., NJ
Posts: 7,597
Thumbs up

Matt,

My brother has a TE450, that he will soon convert to a minimalist dual sport bike, and maybe get a set of supermoto wheels. Its awesome. Even the suspension is good stock, once the fork oil is changed, much better than his WR250 2-stroke. He also runs a trials tire, and a JD jetting kit. Now that the bike is broken in and jetted properly(lean stock), it starts easy electric or kick. Very powerful and smooth bike, a bit too much for the tight woods IMO but all the big 4-strokes are. The bike is not especially heavy but big power makes a bike feel heavier. More open single track and ATV type trails its a blast. Also, it never overheats, which surprised me. We've been in some sticky technical situations and no steam!

If I were looking for a 450 class 4-stroke, this would be the bike. He got a killer deal on his '05, but I hear there catching on and those deals are gone.

Oh yeah, in and out of the NJ DMV with a reg and plate, no problem.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-13-2006, 03:43 PM
flybars flybars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cashmere,Washington
Posts: 643
Talking next bike

hi matt. i'm a newly reg. member on ggrider. sorry for no cap. letters. i just had rotator cuff and carpal tunnel surgery on my right side thurs. the 10th. can't lift my right hand yet.
before deciding on a 500cc motor, take one more look at the '05 gasgas450. i commute to work on it with stock gearing. it does 60 easy on hiway and has plenty left over to get around problem driver's. and it is so light and flickable in the woods.
my last ride for sometime was weds. eve. before surgery the next day. ted and i road one of the many single tracks in our neiborhood. after we were done we traded bikes. his is an '05 ktm450. great bike.
he's much more experienced than me, but made the comment; now i know why i could'nt keep up with u. he said that when he rolled the throttle on it was instant without being harsh. and that my gg was quite a bit faster than his.
it doesn't have the engine breaking your talking about because of the slipper clutch.
this bike is sold as a dualsport in wash. state and the dealet took care of all necessary paper work. i got a great buy on it too. brand new '05 model. plus an extra fmf forest/sound approved muffler.
for commuting, i will throw a smaller counter sprocket on when the doc. say's ok to ride. this bike will then go as fast as u need without the rev's. and it is quick. then when u get to the riding area, a quick sprocket switch and 5 min. later and your roosting.
everyone in my area ride mostly 4 strokes. probly because the mountains are in our yards and it's pavement to trail.
also i installed a clark 2.8 natural tank. if your gonna be going farther, i read somewhere that there is a 4gal. after market tank floating around somewhere.
i also love the fact that i don't have to ever worry about jetting again....
my xr440r was a biiiitch to get dialed in. still not spot on.
plus i was able to cut my hebo's down 7/8's each side and raise bar's up with tusk? spacer's, which allowed me to install fastway barkbuster's.
the only thing u have to do to the gg is disconnect the yellow/blue wires which makes it run way too lean and overheat.
i'm hoping u will get this bike also because most of u guy's seem to ride 2 strokes, and i've got alot of questions. it has been very difficult to squeeze info. out of 4stroke gasgases. especially '05 and newer.
so since u already approve of gg in the 2 stroke form, why not give the 4 stroke gg a whirl? bob\
__________________
'14 Beta 300rr
'05 GG DE300
'03 GG EC250
'01 XR440
'09 FZ1
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-13-2006, 10:52 PM
Metalefty's Avatar
Metalefty Metalefty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flybars
hi matt. i'm a newly reg. member on ggrider. sorry for no cap. letters. i just had rotator cuff and carpal tunnel surgery on my right side thurs. the 10th. can't lift my right hand yet.
before deciding on a 500cc motor, take one more look at the '05 gasgas450. i commute to work on it with stock gearing. it does 60 easy on hiway and has plenty left over to get around problem driver's. and it is so light and flickable in the woods.
my last ride for sometime was weds. eve. before surgery the next day. ted and i road one of the many single tracks in our neiborhood. after we were done we traded bikes. his is an '05 ktm450. great bike.
he's much more experienced than me, but made the comment; now i know why i could'nt keep up with u. he said that when he rolled the throttle on it was instant without being harsh. and that my gg was quite a bit faster than his.
it doesn't have the engine breaking your talking about because of the slipper clutch.
this bike is sold as a dualsport in wash. state and the dealet took care of all necessary paper work. i got a great buy on it too. brand new '05 model. plus an extra fmf forest/sound approved muffler.
for commuting, i will throw a smaller counter sprocket on when the doc. say's ok to ride. this bike will then go as fast as u need without the rev's. and it is quick. then when u get to the riding area, a quick sprocket switch and 5 min. later and your roosting.
everyone in my area ride mostly 4 strokes. probly because the mountains are in our yards and it's pavement to trail.
also i installed a clark 2.8 natural tank. if your gonna be going farther, i read somewhere that there is a 4gal. after market tank floating around somewhere.
i also love the fact that i don't have to ever worry about jetting again....
my xr440r was a biiiitch to get dialed in. still not spot on.
plus i was able to cut my hebo's down 7/8's each side and raise bar's up with tusk? spacer's, which allowed me to install fastway barkbuster's.
the only thing u have to do to the gg is disconnect the yellow/blue wires which makes it run way too lean and overheat.
i'm hoping u will get this bike also because most of u guy's seem to ride 2 strokes, and i've got alot of questions. it has been very difficult to squeeze info. out of 4stroke gasgases. especially '05 and newer.
so since u already approve of gg in the 2 stroke form, why not give the 4 stroke gg a whirl? bob\
The more time I spend with my '05 GG450 the more I think it is the most underrated 4 stroke out there. I think some riders don't want to believe the GG450 is as good as it is because they have to much pride in there mainstream bikes. After a year I'm finally ordering a Rekluse only because I enjoyed the slipper so much.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-14-2006, 04:31 AM
INABIL INABIL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rockaway Twp. N.J.
Posts: 50
Default

Are you guys with the newer 450fse's able to kick start your bikes without using the E-start?
__________________
Bill

'03 EC400fse
'95 KX 250
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-14-2006, 06:27 AM
GMP's Avatar
GMP GMP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jefferson Twp., NJ
Posts: 7,597
Default

That issue was addressed with the new '05 motor design, its quite a bit different from what I've seen. The only complaint I've heard on an '05 was the lack of a quiet exhaust, but that was a year ago when they first came out.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-14-2006, 07:59 AM
Metalefty's Avatar
Metalefty Metalefty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMP
That issue was addressed with the new '05 motor design, its quite a bit different from what I've seen. The only complaint I've heard on an '05 was the lack of a quiet exhaust, but that was a year ago when they first came out.
When my bike was delivered last year the mid pipe for the stock FMF Q wasn't ready yet so it came with a Kreuger pipe which is very quiet, when the mid pipe came and I installed the FMF Q I also bought the Krueger pipe for any ultra sensative riding areas I were to go to. The Q really isn't loud either. I like the Q and found that it was one more aftermarket part I didn't need to buy.
__________________
'05 EC450FSE
'02 MC250
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MC250 - tire recommendations? Trooper Sam Enduro Chassis & Body 8 05-03-2010 08:29 PM
1st Trials Bike Recommendations mrkartoom Other GasGas Bikes/Quads 5 06-18-2009 07:33 PM
Rebound shim recommendations (stiffer) stay_upright Enduro Suspension 4 09-20-2008 02:20 PM
Recommendations on a zoke tuner? stvbird Enduro Suspension 2 02-13-2008 06:40 AM
New Handguard recommendations?? gasIdaho Enduro Chassis & Body 3 11-07-2007 06:18 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009 - GasGasRider.org