2011 EC300 - Starter Won't stay engaged

[Timbre]

My 2011 GG EC300 is having some "issues" with the starter.

I read all the incredible information Bobt250 wrote in his post about the starter on the 2011 EC300 he has. I also read all the posts after it. What a LONG read, but great info.

So, I had a few questions . . .

First off, i have taken mine apart and the shimming all seems to be correct. The gears seem to mesh (engage) perfectly (with the bendix cammed out and taped open, then inserted into the case on the engine). There is a little play when rocking the top gear (on the bendix) back and forth. Seems perfect to me since the gears look great inside - no missing teeth or even chipped at all on either the flywheel gear or the bendix bottom end gear. No chipping on the starter worm gear or the larger gear on top of the bedix. So i believe all to be good in that department. I have a fully charged battery as well.

What the starter is doing, is it wont STAY engaged when i hit the button. It engages almost every time, turns the engine a revolution or so, then quickly disengages. Its a pain in the A** to start cold with the Estart, due to it not continuing to crank the engine, but works almost perfectly when warm - fires right up. When cold though, sometimes i have to hit the button 20+ times before it will start. What do i need to do to get this bugger to engage and STAY engaged and keep cranking until the engine starts?

What exactly does the flyweight spring do?
Many talk about stretching it to hold the weights more loosely.
Will that benefit me to do this as well since mine engages great, but just wont STAY engaged and keep cranking?

What is the purpose of the flyweights?
Do they just affect the initial engagement?
If so, how?
Or do they affect the disengagement, to throw out the gears when the engine starts?
I am just trying to understand how this unit operates so i can know how any adjustments i might make will affect it.

Based on my "symptoms", is my Bendix bad?

I see the SMU5011 (Honda part #31209-GE1-714) (Honda code 4223269) is an aftermarket replacement for this starter, if i use the GG top gear and shaft. Do i use the flyweight spring, weights, and end disengagement spring (on the bottom of bendix - above bendix gear that engages the flywheel teeth) from the SMU5011 so all work in harmony on this new bendix unit?

Is the "real" Honda part better than aftermarket?

How does one get that little clip off the shaft easier? It is a REAL Pain to get that little think out of the groove!!. Any tool made for removing this little clip? I have mine back together and will have to remove that one again as well as the clip on the new Honda bendix to swap parts. OUCH!!

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[dANbOT]

My new 2014 was acting exactly as you describe, I stretched the spring and it is flawless now.
The flyweights swing out (against the force of the spring) to engage the bendix. By stretching the spring, you are allowing the flyweights to engage easier.

[shang]

With the Honda part you will indeed use the GG shaft and gear, the rest you swap over from the Honda bendix. Other than the clip, super easy and straight forward.

I have hundreds of fault free starts on my Honda bendix. I think stretching the spring would work great too. Unfortunately I was at the in-laws cabin when mine quit working and I disassembled my starter and stretched the spring from memory since I didn't have Internet access. I stretched it too far. So, I bought the Honda bendix.

I have found that the trick to removing the clip on the bendix is to stab yourself in the hand multiple times in the process with pick tools and sctrewdrivers While swearing profusely. Having beer handy did help.

Good luck!

[Timbre]

Originally Posted by dANbOT

My new 2014 was acting exactly as you describe, I stretched the spring and it is flawless now.
The flyweights swing out (against the force of the spring) to engage the bendix. By stretching the spring, you are allowing the flyweights to engage easier.

I appreciate the reply.
Cheers!

[Timbre]

Originally Posted by shang

With the Honda part you will indeed use the GG shaft and gear, the rest you swap over from the Honda bendix. Other than the clip, super easy and straight forward.

I have hundreds of fault free starts on my Honda bendix. I think stretching the spring would work great too. Unfortunately I was at the in-laws cabin when mine quit working and I disassembled my starter and stretched the spring from memory since I didn't have Internet access. I stretched it too far. So, I bought the Honda bendix.

I have found that the trick to removing the clip on the bendix is to stab yourself in the hand multiple times in the process with pick tools and screwdrivers While swearing profusely. Having beer handy did help.

Good luck!

Perfect! That was what i hoping to hear. I have one on order. It is the aftermarket part (SMU5011), not the genuine Honda part (31209-GE1-714), so i hope it is indeed a well made unit.

I will stretch the spring a bit, and if i ruin one, i will have a "backup" since the Honda unit comes with one on it as well.

The clip removal sounds painful!!! I will be prepared with extra bandages, a very strong drink (or two), and a "potty mouth filter" in place before attempting to remove it =)

Thanks again!
Cheers!

[Neil E.]

Unlikely that stretching the spring will help. It really only cures the fails-to-engage problem. Won't hurt though. Since yours always engages, I'd say the bendix return spring is too strong and retracts the unit early.

It sounds like it takes too little force to turn the motor. This reduces the load that keeps the gears engaged. This would happen if your cylinder compression was low or perhaps your battery is not as strong as you think. The best test would be to jump it from a car battery and see if it improves.

It is a proven fact that these starters are not much good at cooler temperatures. Most are hit and miss when it's cold, then work fine when the engine is warm. The solution is to use the kickstarter for your first start of the day.

One thing you could try is lubricating the bendix assembly with thick oil and see if that slows the return action.

[Timbre]

Originally Posted by Neil E.

Unlikely that stretching the spring will help. It really only cures the fails-to-engage problem. Won't hurt though. Since yours always engages, I'd say the bendix return spring is too strong and retracts the unit early.

It sounds like it takes too little force to turn the motor. This reduces the load that keeps the gears engaged. This would happen if your cylinder compression was low or perhaps your battery is not as strong as you think. The best test would be to jump it from a car battery and see if it improves.

It is a proven fact that these starters are not much good at cooler temperatures. Most are hit and miss when it's cold, then work fine when the engine is warm. The solution is to use the kickstarter for your first start of the day.

One thing you could try is lubricating the bendix assembly with thick oil and see if that slows the return action.

Thanks Neil

Where to put the thick oil? Inside where the flyweights and little spring are? or inside on the splines on the shaft the bendix gear travels on, on its way out to engage the ring gear?

The dealer worked on this starter a year or so ago, so i don't know what "adjustments" they made at that time. It worked well for a while, but has gotten much worse on staying engaged. I am hoping that the new bendix unit i have coming will solve the problem since the springs (flyweight and return springs) should be set to work together (engage and return). I will check to see if there is any difference on the "strength" of the return spring on the new part in comparison to the existing one.

[Neil E.]

The thick oil can go everywhere inside. You might want to swish the assembly around in varsol and blow it out with compressed air to clean it out.
Maybe try grease if thick oil doesn't make enough change. If you get a hanging engagement then you'll know the oil/grease is too thick.

[Timbre]

Originally Posted by Neil E.

The thick oil can go everywhere inside. You might want to swish the assembly around in varsol and blow it out with compressed air to clean it out.
Maybe try grease if thick oil doesn't make enough change. If you get a hanging engagement then you'll know the oil/grease is too thick.

Ok. Thanks again Neil
Cheers!