Idle probs, can't seem tp resolve.. Help!

[RichyN]

Thanks for the advice. I did speak with Dave at Bike Tech.
Got a 178 main, 40 pilot, CCK needle.
All fitted, still can't get the idle to go right. When fully warmed up, when you close the throttle it hangs as though the idle is set too high, then after about 30 secs or so drops to a slow idle. The idle screw is quite a long way in, throttle cable seems free and OK.

Also after accelerating through the gears on mid throttle, I am getting a knock as the throttle is closed and opened. This will happen when I stop for a couple of blips until presumable the engine cools off a little. This is at 0-4 degrees C at about 1000 ft. I have tried needle on #5 also the N1EF needle, still happens with either I tried a hard run on full throttle but have limited space for this and cut the engine as best I could (the kill switch is not at the bars...)
Plug was clean with matt white insulator except for about 70 degree angle which was sooty. It seemed to be over one side of the electrode.

There is no spooge at all the pipe exit is dry but dark.

On full throttle run I did not notice any knocking..

I have limited opportunity to try it as it is not road registered currently.

BTW Ian, did you move here from KDX land?

Any suggestions very welcome.

[Skidad]

I think with the 40 pilot you're still to lean. I woud try a 45 for the temps you mentioned. A clean white insulator on the plug is not good indicating a lean condition.

Although unlikely as it's an 07 a bad crank seal on the ignition side can cause these symptoms.

[GMP]

Your obviously lean. First verify no air leaks, good reeds, and that fuel is OK (no large amount of oxygenate). You should not have to run the slide stop in so far, you are pulling off the needle circuit. If you are doing this because the idle was rich, try an #8 slide with richer pilot.

[iancp5]

First please note that I do a lot of tight woods riding and speeds are often down to below 10 mph for a lot of the time with throttle alternating between 0 and 25% on a 300. I did a lot of testing a few years ago and found anything above a 42 pilot would cause spooging in the trees. That applied to various N1EX needles and the LTR. It may be lean at idle but going rich on the pilot swaps one problem for another. I found I'd do a slow section for maybe 5 - 10 mins, hit a straight and the bike would cough for about 5 secs before clearing and taking off. At that point the guy you worked hard to overtake in the woods comes past!

I'd suggest really checking for air leaks. On the 2 GG's I've owned the fit between carb and manifolds isn't great and it's easy to develop a slight split in the engine side one from over tightening and to get an air gap filter side from it not being on completely. I also reckon float height is very critical on these bikes for the idle.

I always suspected that the engine hanging was because at that point it was hot and clean. After a while of idling it would cool and spooge up somehow. If you richen it up it doesn't hang but it'll stall as it cools and spooges. You should be able to richen on the airscrew and then up the idle so it doesn't stall. If you go too rich on pilot it wont run right weaving in and out of the trees.

Never had a KDX by the way.

[RichyN]

Originally Posted by GMP

Your obviously lean. First verify no air leaks, good reeds, and that fuel is OK (no large amount of oxygenate). You should not have to run the slide stop in so far, you are pulling off the needle circuit. If you are doing this because the idle was rich, try an #8 slide with richer pilot.

I did check for leaks all round the carb by spraying carb cleaner. No leaks.
The reeds appear to be V-Force 3: 4 pairs of carbon fibre reeds in a "W" shaped cage. All petals are fine but there are some VERY slight light gaps if I shine a bright light through.

I sprayed WD40 in around the flywheel to try and check the crank seal
I was not able to get a change in the fast idle, what is best way to check
the crank seal?

Incidentally, I checked the flywheel for vertical play and there is none, except at TDC/BDC where I can just feel a very slight movement.
Not sure if this is serious or if it will go on for years......
I think the bike must have had a hard life before I got it..

Cheers

[RichyN]

Originally Posted by iancp5

First please note that I do a lot of tight woods riding and speeds are often down to below 10 mph for a lot of the time with throttle alternating between 0 and 25% on a 300. I did a lot of testing a few years ago and found anything above a 42 pilot would cause spooging in the trees. That applied to various N1EX needles and the LTR. It may be lean at idle but going rich on the pilot swaps one problem for another. I found I'd do a slow section for maybe 5 - 10 mins, hit a straight and the bike would cough for about 5 secs before clearing and taking off. At that point the guy you worked hard to overtake in the woods comes past!

I'd suggest really checking for air leaks. On the 2 GG's I've owned the fit between carb and manifolds isn't great and it's easy to develop a slight split in the engine side one from over tightening and to get an air gap filter side from it not being on completely. I also reckon float height is very critical on these bikes for the idle.

I always suspected that the engine hanging was because at that point it was hot and clean. After a while of idling it would cool and spooge up somehow. If you richen it up it doesn't hang but it'll stall as it cools and spooges. You should be able to richen on the airscrew and then up the idle so it doesn't stall. If you go too rich on pilot it wont run right weaving in and out of the trees.

Never had a KDX by the way.

I do have the slight hesitation when opening it up after a while and then
it kicks in and runs clean. The general throttle response is excellent.
This is with N1EF currently on #2. I have tried on #3 but it seemed to be running rich as it would not rev cleanly.
I don't understand this lean business if the needle jet is rich. Is the pilot that significant? When I got the bike there was a 35 pilot. going to the 40 has not made much difference really to the idle issue.

[Skidad]

Try the 45 and see what happens. Like GMP says you may need a #8 slide to work best with that but try it with the stock #7 first. The hesitation you speak of could be a lean bog not rich.

[Loosenut]

Funny. My 2000 EC300 never really idled well. It does best with a 42 pilot and #8 slide which is OK. I currently have the #7 slide in the bike to make it easier to ride for my less skilled freinds. My 2005 EC300 idles all day long with the same 42 pilot jet with the stock, LTR or the CCK needles.

[iancp5]

Originally Posted by RichyN

I do have the slight hesitation when opening it up after a while and then
it kicks in and runs clean. The general throttle response is excellent.
This is with N1EF currently on #2. I have tried on #3 but it seemed to be running rich as it would not rev cleanly.
I don't understand this lean business if the needle jet is rich. Is the pilot that significant? When I got the bike there was a 35 pilot. going to the 40 has not made much difference really to the idle issue.

This is just my opinion and I know others vary but you should ignore idle and jet the bike for actual riding provided it doesn't stall as soon as you you close the gas. Then when happy with that think about the idle. The pilot effected a lot for me because so much of my riding was at low speed. If this isn't important for you, you could go rich on it which would stop idle being too high when coming off a fast bit. I do find the Gassers I've had incredibly sensitive to the idle. It is possible to get an adequate idle but everything has to be right and don't under estimate float height in combination with pilot effect. I wonder if this is why we get such a variation in pilot sizes. I.e. the guys that have no problem with a 45 or bigger pilot are running a lower float height that those of us on 38, 40, 42? I know I find it hard to set float height I've often measured very carefully and found it obviously wrong when running the bike. It feels as if 1mm too low and it can run lean or out of gas and 1mm too high and it starts leaking at the slightest opportunity. Maybe it's my clumsiness.