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Enduro Engine 4 stroke (including EFI & Exhaust) 4 stroke engine, EFI, and exhaust discussion


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  #1  
Old 06-11-2010, 07:46 AM
Crankin04 Crankin04 is offline
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Default Extremely hard starting problems

I have a 2004 Gas Gas FSE 450 and even with a fresh new battery and plenty of new fuel in the gas tank, I sometimes can't even get the bike to start, or sometimes it will take up to an hour or more.

I turn the key on, open throttle for about 4 or 5 seconds then closed it and hit the start button 2 seconds later. The engine cranks real good but just wont start. Using the kick at the same time or by itself doesn't work either.

Also a lot of loud "gunshot" type sounds keep coming out of my muffler randomly when I hit the start button.

I have been told to hook it up to a Magneti Marreli VDST program with the cable that hooks up to my ECU but don't know anyone or any dealers in the state of Washington who has this?

Any other clues what this might be or what I can try? Anyone else had the same problem for your 450?

Thanks for all your input.

Crankin04


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Old 06-11-2010, 08:30 AM
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bergerhag bergerhag is offline
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Try this: Ignition on, open trottle fully, hit starter buttom with trottle still open. This only works good with engine cold.

I had similar experiences with my '05, found that spark was lost while starter turned the engine. When I released the e-button, I would get irratic sparks.
It was possible to kick start the bike, but it wouldn't fire using the e-starter.

When I measured battery voltage while starter was running, I only had 9V at the battery poles. What happened was that the voltage dropped so low that the efi stopped working. The problem in my case was a slightly damaged starter engine, which made the turning a little harder, and the starter used more current, pulling the voltage down.

And, opening the throttle with engine stopped isnt gonna do a thing for you. The EFI runs the pump to set up proper system pressure, but there will be no injects until the engine cranks.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Crankin04 Crankin04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergerhag View Post
Try this: Ignition on, open trottle fully, hit starter buttom with trottle still open. This only works good with engine cold.

I had similar experiences with my '05, found that spark was lost while starter turned the engine. When I released the e-button, I would get irratic sparks.
It was possible to kick start the bike, but it wouldn't fire using the e-starter.

When I measured battery voltage while starter was running, I only had 9V at the battery poles. What happened was that the voltage dropped so low that the efi stopped working. The problem in my case was a slightly damaged starter engine, which made the turning a little harder, and the starter used more current, pulling the voltage down.

And, opening the throttle with engine stopped isnt gonna do a thing for you. The EFI runs the pump to set up proper system pressure, but there will be no injects until the engine cranks.

Awesome. I will give that starting tip a shot tonight. I also went ahead and bought the Techno Research VDST software and cable. Can't wait to get that and hook it up to my ECU, and get the fuel trim fixed up and TPS reset .

You know any of the settings for the VDST program I should use when tuning the FI?

Thanks!

Crankin04
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:12 AM
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If it has not been serviced for a while check the valve clearances. If these are out a lot it will cause problems. You can also check if it's a voltage drop by jumping it with a big car battery.

Mine starts by cranking with throttle open a little bit then closing while still cranking. It doesn't start easy but does always start. But ... I hear every one of these bikes is individual in its starting technique.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:37 AM
Crankin04 Crankin04 is offline
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Guys I have hooked up the technoresearch VDST software and increased my fuel trim a little bit (was at 22 now at 35, then tested at 40, 42, 45) and also reset my TPS using the Buell procedure and it said PASSED.

I also had my valves checked a couple months ago and all looks good according to the service shop that did so, but I still cannot get my stupid bike to start cold. And if I do, it's like almost an hour later

What the heck else can I try? I thought the TPS Reset was supposed to help with this...?
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:38 AM
Crankin04 Crankin04 is offline
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Guys I have hooked up the technoresearch VDST software and increased my fuel trim a little bit (was at 22 now at 35, then tested at 40, 42, 45) and also reset my TPS using the Buell procedure and it said PASSED.

I also had my valves checked a couple months ago and all looks good according to the service shop that did so. Made sure their's plenty of Gas and my bike battery has full power and fully charged, but I still cannot get my stupid bike to start cold. And if I do, it's like almost an hour later

What the heck else can I try? I thought the TPS Reset was supposed to help with this...?

Crankin04
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:54 AM
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I remember that, on earlier models, if it failed to start in the first minute - you had to turn the key off and let the bike sit for a minute or two for the ecu to reset. Then try again and it would start.

jeff
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:16 PM
Crankin04 Crankin04 is offline
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Quote:
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I remember that, on earlier models, if it failed to start in the first minute - you had to turn the key off and let the bike sit for a minute or two for the ecu to reset. Then try again and it would start.

jeff
Allright then. I'll try and start her up after I get off work and if she doesn't start within a minute I'll turn it off for a couple minutes then try and let you know how it went.

If you or anybody else has any more tips or thoughts on this, I would greatly appreciate it, as I love my bike but losing SERIOUS faith in it..
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:14 PM
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The backfiring has me thinking. I wonder if the woodruff key on your flywheel has sheared??? That would at least be an easy fix, and super cheap.

This would certainly change your timing enough not to start, and could cause backfiring. So it begs the follow up question: When you have been able to start the bike, how does it run?
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:05 PM
Crankin04 Crankin04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roostafish View Post
The backfiring has me thinking. I wonder if the woodruff key on your flywheel has sheared??? That would at least be an easy fix, and super cheap.

This would certainly change your timing enough not to start, and could cause backfiring. So it begs the follow up question: When you have been able to start the bike, how does it run?
It runs really good once it's been started and running. Especially since I adjusted the fuel trim to be a little more richer. I guess I will look at the woodruff and see what's going on there, cause it back fires A LOT upon startup and once it's been running..thanks for thoughts
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