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Enduro Intake/Carburetion - 2 stroke Jetting, Reeds, Air Filters, etc.


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Old 01-02-2013, 07:24 PM
n_green n_green is offline
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Default Basic Carb Function explanation

I found this link while trying to educate myself in understanding the way the carb works. Pretty good reading and helped me understand the way the carb circuits work (it has pictures!)

http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/carbs101.pdf


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Old 01-02-2013, 11:26 PM
n_green n_green is offline
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Default In case the link is ever removed







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Old 01-02-2013, 11:26 PM
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:46 AM
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Nice article. Printed that out for my service book.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:07 PM
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Thumbs up A Few Jetting Basics (ie Jetting 101)

At the suggestion of Jakobi, I compiled a few posts into this thread to help folks out there like myself - somewhere between grasping at straws to a somewhat fundamental understanding of how the slide, pilot jet, needle, main jet, and air screw all work together.

Props go to stainlesscycle and arminhammer for the content below; my guess is others will hopefully add to this. The simple explanation and then how to adjust is by far the biggest help for me. Now if I could get the secret needle code decoder ring, I might actually be able to comment intelligently...lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stainlesscycle
anyways - proper plug chop is: bike warm, run to throttle position you want (with bike under load - i.e. riding..can't do this on a stand - no load = inaccurate), hold it for at least 10 seconds, hit kill switch, pull in clutch, maintain throttle position until you come to a stop.. check plug.



i gleaned this from the net, and it's my new favorite method for jetting.. it works great for piston port bikes, and bikes with very few needle options (the gg fortunately has tons of needle options...) still, this method will get you in the ballpark very rapidly.... i do the third gear/slight incline jetting - that way i know there's a real load on the motor..
_________



If you can start it cold with no choke, the pilot circuit is too rich.
If, when warm, the idle seems to hang when blipping the throttle, the pilot circuit is too lean.

The best way to set a pilot circuit is with an RPM guage. Warm the bike up and turn the mixture screw to where you get the highest RPM. If it's below 3/4 turns, or above 2.5 turns, change the pilot jet and try again.

On a 2-stroke - You should be able to ride in 3rd gear, throtlle BARELY cracked open, and it should cruise smoothly. If it sputters and crackles, the pilot is too rich. If it bogs, the pilot is too lean.


Needle Clip:

On a 2-stroke - Riding in 3rd gear, with a warm engine and the throttle BARELY cracked open, roll the throttle to 1/2. If the bike sputters and crackles, and you feel like you have to keep rolling on the throttle to smooth it out, the needle is too rich. If, on the otherhand, you get the dreaded 'buhhhhhhwaaaaa', the needle is too lean.

Main jet:

On a 2-stroke - Riding in 3rd, with the throttle BARELY cracked open and cruising along, whack the throttle wide open. If you end up with a set of handlebars impacting your nose, or you loop out, the main is perfect! If it crackles, smokes, and won't get 'on the pipe' quickly, then the main is too rich. If it gives a 'buuuuhhhhwwaaa' sound and feels like it's sucking for air, then the main is too lean.

Advanced Topics:

I will continue to add to this FAQ as time allows. I'll start with the needle because that's the circuit that is 'in play' the most.

The needle regulates the mixture from around 1/4 - 3/4 throttle. Most people are familiar with the clip position, as it's the most common adjustment, but there's much more to the needle. The jet needle is a long rod that fits into the needle jet. On most carbs, both are replaceable with different sized components. As the throttle is opened, the jet needle is retracted from the needle jet and this creates space between the two for gas to flow through. The more you open the throttle, the more the jet needle is pulled out of the needle jet, and consequently the more gas can pass through the increasing space between them. Below I'll outline the various parts of the jet needle.

Length - The relative length of the needle is adjustable by raising or lowering the clip. If you lower the needle (by raising the clip), then the needle sits deeper in the needle jet. This leans out the mixture across the range of the needle. Conversly, if you raise the needle (by lowering the clip), then the needle is further retracted from the needle jet, and this richens the mixture across the needle's range. Needles are offered in various lenghths. If you have a needle which is still too rich, even though it's in clip position 1, then you need to order a longer needle. For example, needle 'A' in clip position 1 is the exact same relative length as needle 'B' in clip position 3. If you had needle A in your bike, and it was still rich - even though you had the clip in position 1, then you could change to needle 'B' and lean things out by going to clip position 2.

Root Diameter - Needles are offered in several different root diameters. The jet needle sits in a hole in the needle jet, as mentioned. The clip position determines how deep it sits in the hole. The root diameter, on the otherhand, is the diameter of the needle at it's pointy end. The wider the root diameter, the smaller the space between the needle and the hole in the needle jet. Therefore, I needle with a larger root diameter will be leaner than a needle with a smaller root diameter. The root diameter overlaps with the slide cutaway, which is to say that it affects primarily 1/8th to 1/4 throttle mixture. Typically you would swap for a needle with a larger root diameter to compensate for high altitude (or extreme heat).

Needle taper - Needles taper from top to bottom. As with all principles regarding the needle, the taper is relative to the diameter of the hole in the needle jet. Tapers are rarely changed, but here's a condition which warrants a taper change. Let's say the jetting is perfect at 1/4 throttle, but becomes increasingly leaner as you approach 3/4 throttle. In that case, you would want a needle with a shallower taper. Conversly, if the mixture is great at 1/4 throttle, but getting richer and richer as you approach 3/4 throttle, then the needle taper needs to be steeper. In my experience, needle taper only needs to be changed when the factory mis-spec'd it to begin with. Under very rare circumstances, big modifications to the motor - such as an overbore kit - will require a change in needle taper.


Remember that jetting needs to be adjusted for every 2000' elevation change and every 15 degree temperature change. If it was jetted right this summer, it's sure to be too lean during the winter. If you rejet it now, when it's cold out, make sure to lean it out a bit in the spring.
Guess I can't have a post that's over 10k characters...lol - add arminhammer's info in a second.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:09 PM
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Adding the information from arminhammer...and someone named Spanky

Quote:
Originally Posted by arminhammer
Spanky's Jetting Guide:

A correctly jetted carb makes a tremendous difference in the torque, midrange pull, top-end pull, and over-rev of your engine. If you have never jetted your bike correctly, you will almost certainly gain some performance at some point in the bike's powerband.

A cleanly jetted pilot circuit can be the difference between having to clutch the bike out of a turn or not. The needle can make all the difference in the world for the power of the machine in most situations, as it controls the throttle range that most riders spend most of their time using.

A correctly sized main jet could mean the difference between being able to rev out high enough to not have to shift one more time at the end of the straight, or the power falling flat on top and requiring you to make that extra shift.

Are you fouling plugs? Many people will tell you all sorts of band-aid fixes, from running less oil, to running a hotter plug. Both are incorrect fixes for plug fouling. It's all in the jetting.

The only way to know what jetting changes you will need is by trial-and-error. No one can give you jetting specs, because every bike is different, every rider has a different style, and jetting is totally weather dependent. Unless the person telling you what jets to use is riding an identical bike, on the exact same track, at the same time, his recommendations are meaningless.

Jetting is fairly simple, and is a useful skill to learn if you ride a two-stroke and want it to perform at it's best.

It's very important that you start with the pilot circuit. The reason is simple. The pilot circuit affects the entire throttle range. When you are at full throttle, the main jet is the primary fuel metering device, but the pilot is still delivering fuel as well, adding to the total amount of fuel that your engine is receiving.

Before you start to rejet your bike, you need a clean air filter, a fresh plug (actually you need several plugs to do plug-chop tests for the main jet), and fresh fuel.

One important detail: Make sure the engine is in good mechanical condition. If your engine has a worn top-end, fix it first. Trying to jet a worn out engine is a waste of time. The same goes for reeds that don't seal properly, and a silencer that needs re-packing. Worn reeds will mimic rich jetting, and worn rings will mimic lean jetting.

Before you start the jet testing, Install a fresh plug. Set the float level to the proper specs, an incorrect float height will affect your jetting all across the throttle range.

Warm the bike completely, and shut it off.

As already stated, start with the pilot circuit. Turn the air screw all the way in, then turn it out 1.5 turns to start. Start the engine, and turn the idle screw in until you get a slightly fast idle, or hold the throttle just barely cracked, to keep the engine idleing. Turn the airscrew slowly in, and then out, until you find the point where the idle is fastest. Stop there. Do not open the screw any farther, or your throttle response will be flat and mushy, and the bike may even bog. This is only the starting point, we will still have to tune the air screw for the best response.

Now is the time to determine if you have the correct pilot installed in your carb. The air screw position determines this for you, making it very simple. If your air screw is less than 1 turn from closed, you need a larger pilot jet. If it is more than 2.5 turns from closed, you need a smaller pilot jet.

Once you have determined (and installed it if it's neccessary to change it) the correct pilot jet size, and tuned the air screw for the fastest idle, it's time to tune the air screw for the best throttle response. Again, make sure the bike is at full operating temperature. Set the idle back down (the bike should still idle, despite what you read in the Moto Tabloids), and ride the bike, using closed-to-1/4 throttle transitions. Turn the air screw slightly in either direction until you find the point that gives you the best response when cracking the throttle open. Most bikes are sensitive to changes as small as 1/8 of a turn.

The air screw is not a set-it-and-leave-it adjustment. You have to constantly re-adjust the air screw to compensate for changing outdoor temps and humidity. An air screw setting that is perfect in the cool morning air will likely be too rich in the heat of the mid-day.

Now, it's time to work on the needle. Mark the throttle grip at 1/4 and 3/4 openings. Ride the bike between these two marks. If the bike bogs for a second before responding to throttle, lower the clip (raising the needle) a notch at a time until the engine picks up smoothly. If the bike sputters or sounds rough when giving it throttle, raise the clip (lowering the needle) until it runs cleanly. There isn't really any way to test the needle other than by feel, but it's usually quite obvious when it's right or wrong.

Last is the main jet. The main jet affects from 1/2 to full throttle. The easiest way to test it is to do a throttle-chop test. With the bike fully warmed up, find a long straight, and install a fresh plug. Start the engine, and do a full-throttle run down the straight, through all gears. As soon as the bike tops out, pull the clutch in, and kill the engine, coasting to a stop. Remove the plug, and look deep down inside the threads, at the base of the insulator. If it is white or gray, the main is too lean. If it is dark brown or black, the main is too rich. The correct color is a medium-dark mocha brown or tan.

Once you have a little bit of experience with jetting changes, and you start to learn the difference in feel between "rich" and "lean", you'll begine to learn, just from the sound of the exhaust and the feel of the power, not only if the bike is running rich or lean, but even which one of the carb circuits is the culprit.

The slide is also a tuning variable for jetting, but slides are very expensive, and few bikes need different slides, so we won't go into that here.

Keep in mind, even though this article is intended primarily for two-strokes, four-strokes also need proper jetting to perform right, although they are not quite as fussy as their oil-burning cousins. The only real difference in the two is with the pilot circuit.

Two-strokes have an air screw that you screw in to make the jetting richer, ansd screw out to make the jetting leaner. Four-strokes, on the other hand, have a fuel adjustment screw that you screw in to make the jetting leaner, and out to make it richer.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:54 PM
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I've also merged it with a previous Sticky on the same topic as I know Jeff (webmaster) would rather keep them to a minimum. Give me a few days and I'll try and gather my notes on part numbers, needle codes, diameters etc.

One thing I will note straight up though (which is also in spankys guide).

You will NOT jet out a mechanical issue. First point of call! If you're not sure, take the time to check or you could be wasting your time going around in circles. That also includes the carb! Make sure its clean and that the floats are in spec.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakobi View Post
I've also merged it with a previous Sticky on the same topic as I know Jeff (webmaster) would rather keep them to a minimum. Give me a few days and I'll try and gather my notes on part numbers, needle codes, diameters etc.
Thanks Jake - this is awesome!

I'll be referring to this thread this coming weekend as I try to get both my brother-in-law's 250 and my wife's 200 setup and ready for our first outing the last weekend of May
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:42 PM
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Before you play too much try and bring the idle down nice and low with the idle screw, and then adjust the air screw. I'd suggest 1.5 turns from fully seated, but you may come out further. If it idles up when you open the air screw you can bring the idle back down again with the idle screw. When its on the money it'll tick over like a sewing machine, and the air screw will be quite effective where opening it up causes a lean condition and going rich makes it want to flame out a bit.
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